# Scratching the itch in Cuffley/Potters Bar (pic heavy)



## sennelager66 (Oct 8, 2011)

...and finally a day off to get back out there. I took in quite a few sites today and got away with losing my camera in the woods and retracing my steps and finding it again. The swearing was unbelievable. I made a decision to revisit the site of the AT blocks under and alongside the embankment of Newgate Street Bridge to photograph the 'post' and a little further down the line from my last visit. 

*EDOBID: 8479*






















Worth the revisit just to photograph the post. Being the only one of it's kind i could fine , i am still not convinced this it connected to or related to the AT blocks.

*EDOBID: 5120 - Type 24*

Sat nicely off Carbone Hill and after Postern Bridge. Heading towards The Ridgeway the PB is sat overlooking the bridge and dried out riverbed. One the opposite side of the road is the lone AT block, sandbags and further up the dried riverbed at 2 sets of roadblocks. One set still in situ and the others have fallen into the riverbed. 


























*EDOBID: 9550 Roadblock*


























For the life of me i couldn't fine the PB 24. Either it is marked up in the wrong place or now destroyed. Another more detailed look around might be needed for this one. 

*EDOBID: 9549*


























Moving onto Great Wood Country Park, Northaw, i eventually located the 4 AT blocks and rails. I scuffed and dug around to get a closer look at the sockets. Thankfully no-one was around to view my antics!

*EDOBID: 8478
*














































*EDOBID: 5119 Type 24 *

Located on Nym Manor Farm and sat overlooking the farmhouse from it's lofty perch on to of the field. This PB is butting up against the back gardens of some property and is dissected by the hedgerow.


























Further down the hill is *EDOBID: 5119*, just past the farm property but due to someone burning off in the adjacent field i couldn't get to this one. One for later.

*EDOBID: 8477*

Located just before and leading into someones property. I knocked on the door and getting no answer i took some cheeky photos. A little necky of me but i shall live with it. There are 27 AT blocks in total running along the property and into the rear garden. What a great natural wall to have! The AT block in the girls school down the road was out of bounds until closed term time so i might make that call.


























*EDOBID: 8168*

This took me ages to find but eventually patience paid off and i saqw the Spigot mount poking through the leaves. Totally buried as you can see. It looks very well preserved and it's a shame it is buried. 





















*EDOBID: 11955 SPIGOT MORTAR *

A gorgeous sight just as a light shower came on. The most compete emplacement i have found yet. A smile crept upon my face when i saw this beauty. Situated down a public footpath and so it's very easy to get to. Sat in the line of trees dividing the two fields and sat behind the Water Tower. 




































*EDOBID: 8476 2 AT Blocks*

Located just of the junction of Swanley Bar Lane and close to the barbed wire fencing. One roadside and the other just the other side of the fence. Nice and easy to get to and photograph.
















Driving past the next PB to visit and parking up in the housing estate i then backtracked along the road trying to find a convenient place to get through the hedge and over the barbed wire. I always need to get leverage over a fence using the post so i don't have and snagging and nagging feelings of impending doom.
Scaring all the sheep away across the field i walked along the hedgerow until i reached this.

*EDOBID: 5117 Type 24*









































Starting to head back home now i decided to take in the final site. I couldn't get to the Ammunition Store due to falling light levels and the danger of walking on a road with no walkway and rush hour traffic. I decided to make the wise decision to come back for that soon. 

*EDOBID:8726 2 rows of 4 AT Blocks
*





















And finally..............located on the opposite side of The Ridgeway road about 40 yards down is this type 24. The runic symbols on all the internal walls were spooky to say the least. 

*EDOBID:5118*































I hope you enjoy the photos as much as i did visiting the sites.


----------



## jonney (Oct 8, 2011)

Fantastic pillbox porn mate and I'm loving the spigot emplacement not found anything like that myself


----------



## Priority 7 (Oct 8, 2011)

Nice pics and some really good finds too


----------



## outkast (Oct 8, 2011)

well done mate, theres still lots in that area, the At blocks running down the side of the house are nice, the owner, dont mind you taking pics at all, she was very interested in their history, if you leave her house and head towards potters bar there is a nice set of four AT blocks on the left about 200 yards from her house, these I think have now beeen added to the overlay.

the ammo store is very close to the last pillbox you took pics of, if you had walked west you would have seen it in the woods, there is also what look like the remains of trenches running all around the area too.

The spigot mortar was part of the radio station defences, if you go past the entrance to the radio station on your right about 500 yards on you will see a road on the left called bell lane, directly opposite that by the side of the road is another spigot mortar emplacement.

potters bar golf course has two nice pillboxs and you can also get pics of the AT blocks on the railway line from there, although only around 5 survive and not the 12 the DOB overlay states, there was so much in this area I am convinced there is more to be discovered.

The roadblock at the entrance to the woods, is a bit of a mystery, I have never discovered why you would put one in that location, its not a road just an entrance, I have hearda rumour thyere was an AA site in the woods wich given the lye of the land seems unlikely, although I did find some concrete remains amongst the trees, but could not indentify them as anything significant.

anyway, good hunting, loving the pics and kep them coming


----------



## Munchh (Oct 8, 2011)

outkast said:


> .......................The roadblock at the entrance to the woods, is a bit of a mystery, I have never discovered why you would put one in that location, its not a road just an entrance, I have hearda rumour thyere was an AA site in the woods wich given the lye of the land seems unlikely, although I did find some concrete remains amongst the trees, but could not indentify them as anything significant.



Going by what I've seen on the Taunton line, Road blocks were not confined to actual roads. There are some around Axminster that seem to defy logic until you look at 1940's maps and discover an old lane or other access to an area is what was being blocked. 

I'm not familiar with the area in question but similar 'what the hell is that doing here?' road blocks crop up around Anti tank Islands. It may not have been possible to put in a AT ditch or the Army may have needed a removable roadblock here and cubes would obviously block access to all traffic. It would be useful to see these defences actual GPS locations plotted in GE to guage how they were joined up so to speak.

So the question for me is, was this area just stopline or are we also looking at some defences from an ATI?

Another very good report Sennelager, the spigot mortar is very well defined. 

The concrete post amongst the cubes should be about 8" square if it's AT but it's on it's own (?) and I don't think you'd find just one. The metalwork is certainly rusted/corroded enough to be WW2 era, could be coincidence and possibly farm related somehow.


----------



## highcannons (Oct 8, 2011)

Well done mate. If you carry on like this you would have run out of objectives soon! Seriously, keep up the good work, thanks.


----------



## sennelager66 (Oct 8, 2011)

Cheers for the information and previous experiences both of the area and I shall be back for a revisit around the area this coming week.

I would love to get hold of mapping of the original defence lines and measures and would happily accept any pointers. The wooded area could yield more and provide a logical explanation as to why an entrance that seemingly leads to nowhere was so fortified.

The golf course was the last site to visit and I need to either walk across the fields to pick up the two PB's on the fairways or take up golf!!

Loving these small obstacles in life.


----------



## sennelager66 (Oct 8, 2011)

highcannons said:


> Well done mate. If you carry on like this you would have run out of objectives soon! Seriously, keep up the good work, thanks.



I'm off to Europe next.


----------



## RichCooper (Oct 8, 2011)

Yet another great report mate  Keep em coming but dont lose your camera lol


----------



## smiler (Oct 8, 2011)

Nice One Sen and respect to you for getting a few cheeky pics of someone’s back garden, but I’ve got to ask, How the hell did you lose a camera? Now I lose meself quite often, and recently lost my tripod carry case in a field of maize, luckily I had Muppets dog with me and she found it. Enjoyed your pics and report. Thanks


----------



## sennelager66 (Oct 8, 2011)

I put it down and forgot it. I have a habit of leaving things in the vicinity and wandering. Thankfully on this occasion it wasn't too far to travel and retraced my steps.
At the moment I use a 12mp compact but wilth all the maps, food, car keys etc I need to invest in a utility bum bag. I next carry a rucksack as it snags too easily.


----------



## oldscrote (Oct 8, 2011)

Good stuff 66, that's some really serious concrete you have down your way, love the shot through the road block {picture 14} thanks for sharing.


----------



## outkast (Oct 8, 2011)

Munchh said:


> Going by what I've seen on the Taunton line, Road blocks were not confined to actual roads. There are some around Axminster that seem to defy logic until you look at 1940's maps and discover an old lane or other access to an area is what was being blocked.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the area in question but similar 'what the hell is that doing here?' road blocks crop up around Anti tank Islands. It may not have been possible to put in a AT ditch or the Army may have needed a removable roadblock here and cubes would obviously block access to all traffic. It would be useful to see these defences actual GPS locations plotted in GE to guage how they were joined up so to speak.
> 
> ...



I did have a map showing the route the stopline took, if I can find it I will post it up

The most south easterly point of the stopline that still exists is a type 27 pillbox in the grounds of copthall, next to the lake out front






it then jumps to the other side of the lake with this type 27 and nice set of AT hairpins









there are several type 27s now heading north west to bumbles green where theres a row of AT blocks





most of the stopline can be found in here
http://gs344.photobucket.com/groups/p359/QGXIL5DZJ3/

and here
http://gs345.photobucket.com/groups/p376/Q3ALPBIIOV/


----------



## Munchh (Oct 8, 2011)

sennelager66 said:


> ............................I would love to get hold of mapping of the original defence lines and measures and would happily accept any pointers. The wooded area could yield more and provide a logical explanation as to why an entrance that seemingly leads to nowhere was so fortified. ............



Getting hold of images of the original maps where they exist is more involved and these are not generally available online to my knowledge. I've always thought, since seeing the archive material krela dug up, that more may exist for other stoplines. I am looking into this and I don't imagine I'm the only one.

In the absence of specific military maps, it's well worth looking at older unmarked maps anyway as often times something like a wood now exists that didn't then and vice versa.

Boundaries change,and towns and villages grow. One two pounder field position around Axminster is indicated in the middle of a modern housing estate and it's firing line to the roadblock it's protecting is obstructed by other buildings etc. Totally different in 1940.

These two map links are useful: 

http://www.ponies.me.uk/maps/osmap.html

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm

And of course you don't want to be without your coordinate converter.

http://www.fieldenmaps.info/cconv/cconv_gb.html

There are a lot of other useful links dotted around the forum and a lot of members who can help with old maps, Foxy for one. 

If you want to wander around the countryside taking photos for yours and our pleasure you won't get any complaint from me. It's how a lot of us start out. If on the other hand you want to cross the line from Exploration into Military Archaeology, a more in depth study of a defence area is available to you. 

You've already done the hard work of walking the ground and you have GPS to fix find locations. From here it's possible to work out the defences from the physical remains coupled with an understanding, first hand or through research, of the military's logic and general practises. The military maps add confirmation, context and/or intent to what is found but are only a part of the equation.

You strike me as the sort of person who is aspiring to do this. I hope you find some of my blathering useful. I like your reports and what you bring to the forum anyway so these are pointers only, just as you ask. 

If you can find your way down here and want to look at an area in more depth, give me a shout and I'll show you what I mean.


----------



## outkast (Oct 8, 2011)

sennelager66 said:


> I'm off to Europe next.



Me too, france on the 29th, looking at the V weapons sites on the north coast, then hopefully berlin to do some bunkers etc nearer christmas time.


----------



## outkast (Oct 8, 2011)

sennelager do you have the DOB poi for your GPS?

if you have a garmin its worth downloading and makes finding place a lot easyer

you can get it for tom tom satnavs too.


----------



## sennelager66 (Oct 8, 2011)

Off to Poland first. I full intend a driving tour of Normandy into Bavaria catching a few sites. I miss Germany. Peenamunder?


----------



## sennelager66 (Oct 8, 2011)

Munchh - exactly what I am after and that is an inspiring post. I will hold you to that meet up at some point. I'd love to move just that little bit further in my reports and understanding. I shall also speak to my dad who researches trench maps on the Somme. I have started to get past that nervous feeling when I first posted and having the military connection band upbringing helps. 
I shall discuss this further and save the links supplied.
I am absorbing printed research and this will further educate me instead of appreciating what is sat in front of me when doing field research.
Cheers guys top help as always.


----------



## outkast (Oct 8, 2011)

The stop line overlaid onto a modern road map


----------



## Foxylady (Oct 9, 2011)

Blimey, that's a serious amount of AT Blocks there. Some fantastic finds, and I really enjoyed seeing those...the garden blocks are an absolute delight! 
Cheers, Sen. Excellent tour and report.


----------



## cptpies (Oct 10, 2011)

Another good site for old OS maps is http://www.npemap.org.uk/ or of course the aptly named http://www.old-maps.co.uk


----------



## Skoyen89 (Dec 4, 2011)

*Northaw*

Hi Sennelager

I have some stuff on the Defence Line in this area so if you PM me your email I will send you what I have.

What is the map ref of the roadblock that is 'at the beginning of the woods' referred to above?

Regards
Skoyen89


----------

