# Knackered old army tanks



## Coal Cutter

Hello folks, my friend and i recently went above ground and found these tanks. I do not know anything about tanks so sorry I cannot give info even though I tried reseacrh. Goggle was not being my pal that day  Anyway.. these are used as targets as they are on a live MOD bombing range but it was a bank holiday and all the nice soldiers must have been having a lie in or down the pub that day. So here is some pictures. Sorry if this is not an appropriate report, I know they are not buildings or places but I think some of you people like things like this...

I think this is what they used in Northern Ireland







I do not know what this is, someone told me it was something called a Self-propelled Gun:












Looks like they had a nasty accident with this one!






Close up details of big holes, I assume they are from gun bullets:






And the last one:







I bet someone knows what these things are, thanks for looking and best wishes


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## Black Shuck

Nice work there mate.. good to see you out and about again.


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## Winch It In

The first pic is a PIG' APC. 1953 Humber 1 Ton Armoured Personnel Carrier.


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## outkast

second one is a Abbot self propelled gun


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## Coal Cutter

Hey thanks guys, I knew some of you would know what these were! Brilliant cheers  Any idea what that big tank is in the last pic?


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## godzilla73

I think that last one might be an old chieftain. Its pretty mashed so its hard to tell, but the back end looks like it might be. Someone else on here will know for definite though!


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## Faing

I seem to recall what hapen to the gun in piic4 as i see it on telly,yhe tank belonged to mr.wily Coyote and was banana'd when roadrunner blocked it with an acme watermelon. good find, thanks


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## TeeJF

I thought Chieften had a different turret shape to that but it's hard to tell isn't it. I even wondered if it was Soviet or or 60s American. Quite enigmatic! Loved the pix.


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## smiffy

the last 2 are def Chieftains but what Mk I haven't a clue...good stuff anyways! where's the range?


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## Andymacg

nice pics,that takes me back to my last 3 years in the armed forces stripping stuff down ready to go on the ranges at Sennybridge


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## Coal Cutter

smiffy said:


> the last 2 are def Chieftains but what Mk I haven't a clue...good stuff anyways! where's the range?



It is the range up in Northumberland near to Otterburn. Thanks for the info


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## night crawler

Glad I'm not in one when they are firing at them. Nice one my man.


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## Marauder

smiffy said:


> the last 2 are def Chieftains but what Mk I haven't a clue...good stuff anyways! where's the range?



Looks to have hinges both sides of the commander's cupola, which would suggest a split hatch, which was only found on MK 1 Chieftains. Also it appears to only have one periscope for the commander which also suggests a very early model, and I can't see a lighting box either.


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## Marauder

Coal Cutter said:


> Close up details of big holes, I assume they are from gun bullets:



Looks more like damage from either 66mm or 84mm HEAT rounds, the holes are too big and in areas where the metal is too think to be bullet holes.


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## jools

They should have used water-melons,,,,,,,,much more effective and quite cheap 

Thanks for the pics


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## Krypton

I want a tank 

I like the last pic


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## 4201Chieftain

Bit sad seeing the chieftains so destroyed, I work on a great example of this vehicle and it has made quite an impression on me! They are both early marks, older versions have extra armour attached to the front of the turret.
Looks like the thermal wrap is missing from the barrel too, I don't think they built a chieftain without it so I'm guessing they took it off. Do they still have their engines?


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## jonney

Krypton said:


> I want a tank
> 
> I like the last pic



There you go mate have a look at these

http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php?type=1

http://tanksforsale.co.uk/Tanks_Trucks_Jeeps_for_sale_page.html


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## Cruachan

The vehicle in the first picture is a Humber 1 Ton (Armoured), universally known as "The Pig" - a nickname that I have to say was very well deserved.

They were originally produced in the 1950s as a stop-gap until the Saracen came into full production. They used the chassis and drive train from a standard Humber 1 ton truck and had a (very lightly) armoured body added. The armour was barely bullet proof but, because of its weight, it caused endless problems with knackered gear boxes, broken half-shafts, burnt out clutches etc etc etc. Most of them had been put into storage by the time the Northern Ireland troubles kicked off in the late 60s but they were the requirement for some kind of armoured protection meant that large numbers were dragged out, dusted off and put back into service. The list of modifications to these things is almost endless and they were used for every task under the sun.

Here's yours truly waiting to go out on patrol in one in Dungannon in 1972.

J


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## Curious Dragon

I love old military vehicles, especially the ww2 ones (surprise surprise) seeing images like this really put a smile on my face and make me wish I had been there too!

Have any of you ever caught the tv program "Tank Restoration"?
It was watching that which made me realise how much I would love to own and restore a few, any war wounds would be kept though unless it hampered the vehicle's operation.
Alas, this is just a lottery win dream unless I become rich and famous so I will just have to enjoy examples such as this or those at shows, owned by some one else (lucky sod!)

Anywho... thank you for sharing


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## 4201Chieftain

Curious Dragon said:


> I love old military vehicles, especially the ww2 ones (surprise surprise) seeing images like this really put a smile on my face and make me wish I had been there too!
> 
> Have any of you ever caught the tv program "Tank Restoration"?
> It was watching that which made me realise how much I would love to own and restore a few, any war wounds would be kept though unless it hampered the vehicle's operation.
> Alas, this is just a lottery win dream unless I become rich and famous so I will just have to enjoy examples such as this or those at shows, owned by some one else (lucky sod!)
> 
> Anywho... thank you for sharing



Iv seen the programme, not only that but I work for one of the companies featured!
Did you see the episode with the centurion? She's come a long way! Anyone interested in pics, I have loads, feel free to ask


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## jonney

4201Chieftain said:


> Iv seen the programme, not only that but I work for one of the companies featured!
> Did you see the episode with the centurion? She's come a long way! Anyone interested in pics, I have loads, feel free to ask



would love to see some pics please


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## Curious Dragon

4201Chieftain said:


> Iv seen the programme, not only that but I work for one of the companies featured!
> Did you see the episode with the centurion? She's come a long way! Anyone interested in pics, I have loads, feel free to ask



Sorry to be so girly but....OMG!!! That is amazing and yes I do remember that episode very well! I am sat here feeling so very envious right now, you lucky man!!!!
To see some pictures would be absolutely amazing please


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## the|td4

Which end of otterburn ranges did you go in at mate? 

I've been across those a few times and never found those beauties, thanks for posting!


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## Dirus_Strictus

Cruachan said:


> The armour was barely bullet proof but, because of its weight, it caused endless problems with knackered gear boxes, broken half-shafts, burnt out clutches etc etc etc. Most of them had been put into storage by the time the Northern Ireland troubles kicked off in the late 60s but they were the requirement for some kind of armoured protection meant that large numbers were dragged out, dusted off and put back into service.



Nice to have input from somebody who was involved with this vehicle, however I would like to qualify the 'dragged out of storage' comment.

By the end of 1969 the MOD's holding of the 'Pig' was very small indeed, the vast majority being disposed of via the Ruddington Disposal Auctions. As an MSc student in the mid 60's I occasionally drove for the family transport business and hauled out a fair number from Ruddington myself. Due to the above quoted mechanical problems the MOD began a program of 'buying back' from the dealers who had originally purchased the lots from Ruddington.

I can only give actual details on the 15 or so that Lew Jackson at Misson got from Ruddington. In early 1971 I purchased a couple of Landrovers from him and he offered me a Pig for £350. In early 1973 the MOD purchased all the suspension units and driveshafts from every Pig Jacksons still had had - the suspension less bodies were just dropped onto the concrete hardstandings of the old missile site. Some time later contractors for the MOD came and removed all the bodies complete with engines and gearboxes. Subsequent information indicated that the Pigs were totally re-furbished in REME workshops, one of the initial modifications being the addition of the tubular pedestrian guard to the front of the vehicle (as seen on the example pictured on the range) - I forget the number of the actual workshop carrying out the work.


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## Cruachan

Dirus_Strictus said:


> Nice to have input from somebody who was involved with this vehicle, however I would like to qualify the 'dragged out of storage' comment.
> 
> By the end of 1969 the MOD's holding of the 'Pig' was very small indeed, the vast majority being disposed of via the Ruddington Disposal Auctions. As an MSc student in the mid 60's I occasionally drove for the family transport business and hauled out a fair number from Ruddington myself. Due to the above quoted mechanical problems the MOD began a program of 'buying back' from the dealers who had originally purchased the lots from Ruddington.
> 
> I can only give actual details on the 15 or so that Lew Jackson at Misson got from Ruddington. In early 1971 I purchased a couple of Landrovers from him and he offered me a Pig for £350. In early 1973 the MOD purchased all the suspension units and driveshafts from every Pig Jacksons still had had - the suspension less bodies were just dropped onto the concrete hardstandings of the old missile site. Some time later contractors for the MOD came and removed all the bodies complete with engines and gearboxes. Subsequent information indicated that the Pigs were totally re-furbished in REME workshops, one of the initial modifications being the addition of the tubular pedestrian guard to the front of the vehicle (as seen on the example pictured on the range) - I forget the number of the actual workshop carrying out the work.



That's very interesting, thanks. Of course, my comment was founded on an assumption rather than hard fact. The Northern Ireland situation, as it developed and worsened through the 70s, caused many similar pieces of lateral thinking. A case in point would be the ships used in Belfast and Londonderry, initially to hold internees and then as accommodation ships for the army garrison. HMS Maidstone (a former destroyer depot ship) and HMS Hartland Point (a former heavy repair ship) were berthed in Belfast and another repair ship (Rame Head) was berthed in Londonderry. The story went that Maidstone (at least) had already been sold for scrapping and had to be bought back (or leased) for use by the MOD.

J


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## Dirus_Strictus

Cruachan said:


> That's very interesting, thanks. Of course, my comment was founded on an assumption rather than hard fact. The Northern Ireland situation, as it developed and worsened through the 70s, caused many similar pieces of lateral thinking. A case in point would be the ships used in Belfast and Londonderry, initially to hold internees and then as accommodation ships for the army garrison. HMS Maidstone (a former destroyer depot ship) and HMS Hartland Point (a former heavy repair ship) were berthed in Belfast and another repair ship (Rame Head) was berthed in Londonderry. The story went that Maidstone (at least) had already been sold for scrapping and had to be bought back (or leased) for use by the MOD.
> 
> J



Not surprising that the facts are/were somewhat cloudy - those at the 'sharp end' are always kept in the dark or the last to know. The mention of the 'Rame Head' rings a bell, I think the scrapping tender had been signed off before the powers that be realised that it was needed elsewhere. I forget the details now and my Naval friend who did know died last year unfortunately.

It is interesting to note that the dealers who bought the original consignments of Pigs would have made a tidy profit, via the tax payer, on this deal with the MOD. The vehicles were originally purchased for around scrap value and were just dumped in dealer's yards on delivery. When the MOD wanted the spare suspension sets, they were found exactly where they have been dumped originally - this certainly was the case with the dealers I was acquainted with, sales being almost none existent prior to the urgent need for suitable patrol vehicles in NI.


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## Bluedragon

Nice pics mate, its ages since ive seen these! i always thought that last one was a soviet t-62?


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## 4201Chieftain

Bluedragon said:


> Nice pics mate, its ages since ive seen these! i always thought that last one was a soviet t-62?



T-62 has a very rounded turret, a bit like an upside down wok with a 115mm gun for a handle Ha ha iv got a pic of a t-72 (pretty much the same size as a 62) next to a chieftain, t-62 is tiny in comparison


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## TED0075

Hi all,
The Chieftain is in fact one of the final variants and as fitted with TOGS Thermal Observation Gunnery System, you can see the barbette on the left side of the turret replacing the 11 Million candle power searchlight. All of the stowage bins and catwalks are missing along with the thermal sleeve, which makes the tank look very strange. The front of the turret was up armoured with Stillbrew armour in the mid-late 80s which put I think about an extra 4 ton on. By the time we had to get rid of these for Challenger 1 it really was a very good tank. Nice to see the tracks a properly tightened. Hope this helps.


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## Jagdpanther

Ok not a tank but it is a tracked ex-military vehicle!
This is a Volvo BV202 we spotted in the hills in County Durham. It was a few years ago so don't know if it is still there.


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## Lucky Pants

jonney said:


> There you go mate have a look at these
> 
> http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php?type=1
> 
> http://tanksforsale.co.uk/Tanks_Trucks_Jeeps_for_sale_page.html



HA HA Thats ace !, buy a tank for as little as £5000, the school run would never be the same :icon_evil


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## flyboys90

Jagdpanther said:


> Ok not a tank but it is a tracked ex-military vehicle!
> This is a Volvo BV202 we spotted in the hills in County Durham. It was a few years ago so don't know if it is still there.



I could be wrong but I,m sure there is one on display at Cosford[cold war building]?


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## seank1200s

I think the last one is American- M48 or early model M60 ?


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## TimeIsTheEnemy

The third shot is probably my favourite, all mice stuff though  good find


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## sennelager66

4201Chieftain said:


> Bit sad seeing the chieftains so destroyed, I work on a great example of this vehicle and it has made quite an impression on me! They are both early marks, older versions have extra armour attached to the front of the turret.
> Looks like the thermal wrap is missing from the barrel too, I don't think they built a chieftain without it so I'm guessing they took it off. Do they still have their engines?



I drove one when i was 17 in Fallingbostel. It would never happen today!!. Squaddies hanging on for dear life on the outside while i literally crashed the gearbox, dipping the front end down. This was in a main car park on camp and a few nerves were shredded that day. Loved it. The bet was to get it into top gear and all for a bottle of lager. 

I used to go out live firing with my dad on Hohne ranges and also at Salisbury. Sadly for a cleptomaniac like me i wasn't allowed to take spend shell cases or mortar tail fins home as they has to be accounted for. Well - that's my dads excuse anyway!!


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## The Archivist

This might interest some of you folks, though it's in pretty poor shape after having been buried for the best part of 50 years and having had the turret and tracks removed. It's a Mk. II Churchill and stands on Kithurst Hill in West Sussex.





The tank





Cogwheels for tracks





Standing on top





Remaining controls





Bullet holes

A little history adapted from here:

During 1942, the King's Own Calgary Regiment was practicing tactics and tank manoeuvres with Mk. II Churchills at the deserted village of Tidemills near Seaford in preparation for the intended raid on Dieppe.

During the Canadians' training, 'A' Squadron discovered they had been lumbered with a 'dead-head': a tank with a a crucial mechancal failure. Due to the anticipated arrival of new Mark III Churchills, the tank was not considered worth repairing and was decommissioned.

The Dieppe raid ended in disaster with most of the men being killed or captured by the enemy, but the "dead-head" tank was passed to the infantry units of the 2nd Canadian Army Division who transported it to the training grounds above Storrington in West Sussex where it was used as a target for PIAT anti-tank weapons.

After hostilities ended, the tank was pushed into a bomb crater and covered with earth and rubble. It remained buried until the 1990s when it was dug up by the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers. The turret went to a private collector and various other parts went to the Tank Museum at Bovington but the rest remains as an unoffcial memorial to the Canadian forces in this part of the world.


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## whitneyhouston24

First pic is defo a PIG personell carrier as used in the NI Troubles. The SP Gun is in fact a 105MM Abbot SP Gun which went out of service in the 90's.


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## whodareswins

I'm pretty sure the tank is a chieftan too. And they aren't so much bullet holes, but holes from cannon rounds. Maybe from Rarden cannon?


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## whodareswins

sennelager66 said:


> I drove one when i was 17 in Fallingbostel. It would never happen today!!. Squaddies hanging on for dear life on the outside while i literally crashed the gearbox, dipping the front end down. This was in a main car park on camp and a few nerves were shredded that day. Loved it. The bet was to get it into top gear and all for a bottle of lager.
> 
> I used to go out live firing with my dad on Hohne ranges and also at Salisbury. Sadly for a cleptomaniac like me i wasn't allowed to take spend shell cases or mortar tail fins home as they has to be accounted for. Well - that's my dads excuse anyway!!



I think he lied . I had a few mortar tail fins given to me when I was younger .


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## yortsandthat

I use to shoot countless rounds from a GPMG at distance into those bad boys during training with sas reservists circa 2005/06. I never actually saw them up close like this.


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## the sqms

Coal Cutter said:


> Hello folks, my friend and i recently went above ground and found these tanks. I do not know anything about tanks so sorry I cannot give info even though I tried reseacrh. Goggle was not being my pal that day  Anyway.. these are used as targets as they are on a live MOD bombing range but it was a bank holiday and all the nice soldiers must have been having a lie in or down the pub that day. So here is some pictures. Sorry if this is not an appropriate report, I know they are not buildings or places but I think some of you people like things like this...
> 
> I think this is what they used in Northern Ireland
> View attachment 116725
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know what this is, someone told me it was something called a Self-propelled Gun:
> View attachment 116726
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 116727
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like they had a nasty accident with this one!
> View attachment 116728
> 
> 
> 
> Close up details of big holes, I assume they are from gun bullets:
> View attachment 116729
> 
> 
> 
> And the last one:
> View attachment 116730
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet someone knows what these things are, thanks for looking and best wishes


the top one was called a pig


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