# Slim pickings at Tonfanau AA training camp



## jools (Nov 13, 2011)

Jane and I took the dogs to the coast for a wander. Ideally it would have been good to look around the military site some more,,, but it will save for another day,,,,, yapping impatient Jack Russel dogs do not aid picture composition


The Second World War Anti-Aircraft Training camp at Tonfanau was supplied with targets by the nearby field at Tywyn. 

Although none of the site has been built over there are not a lot of remains at this training camp. 

On the sea-ward side of the railway there are concrete roads,, hut bases, a few decrepid buildings and the 25 yard butts. 

Inland of the railway most of the site has been cleared and landscaped to return the land to agricultural use. There remain a couple of large buildings which I'll look at another day 

There might be things for a RAF aficionado to find and identify but for the layman it is pretty much characterless. 

That's not to say that the area is not worth visiting,,, there is an atmosphere about the place and it's setting by the edge of the sea that feeds the soul,,, that was fed for us by unseasonal warm sunshine and of course by our visit being on Remembrance Sunday,, that's always a day when experiences are brought into focus and enhanced by respect, contemplation and reflection. 


The camp was used to teach the skills of Anti-aircraft gunnery,,,,the trainees would aim at targets floating out to sea as well as the more realistic 
flying targets being towed by manned aircraft.




















As the railway flows through the camp there are a few railway items quietly rusting away,,,






This fence tensioning post was probably one of the most attractive items on site,,, see how small that Jack Russel is?? but the noise he makes 











These 6 octagonal structures (not in aerial pic) must have been gun placements 






The prevailing wind from the sea is pure enough to encourage algae






Concrete access road and raised support for water tank






Effete post






Railway ephemera






Military mushroom











Remains of the weighted road barrier at entry to sea-ward side of the site






Butt at 25 yard range

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Nissen hut at 25yd range












In an article in the book "wings over gwynedd" by Roy Sloan, he relates the story Of a Henley aircraft from nearby Tywyn field towing a target for the camp trainees, who were operating a new radar,,,,,,,,,the gun controllers didn't wait for the second blip on their screen and let fly!!! 

The target towing operator on the Henley got a bit nervous as the rounds were exploding all around them,,,,,, he radioed down to the Army control saying,,,,, "we are pulling the ****** target not pushing it"


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## cptpies (Nov 14, 2011)

Excellent report Jools, amazingly this place seems to have escaped the notice of the DoB survey. Looking at Google earth all the hardstandings for the guns are still extant. The octagonal structure looks too small to be an HAA emplacement but may have been for LAA or possibly something to do with GL radar, was there a holdfast inside it?


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## jools (Nov 14, 2011)

,,you've lost me with DoB,,GL and holdfasts  The interior of the octagons was turf with nothing else showing.







A couple more pics,,,,,,,, the long buildings I've pictured are shown here and inland of the railway can be seen the two larger buildings which look to be in reasonable condition.






Also remaining are the abutments of the military bridge that crossed the estuary. There used to be a 5' square "look-out" post to the sea-ward end of the bridge,,, but the vandals have demolished it






Sea-ward






Inland side with the raised embankment curving away to the Camp


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## TeeJF (Nov 14, 2011)

I like the mushroom, I saw it in the Yorkshire Waterworks only the other week! ;-)


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## krela (Nov 14, 2011)

Very nice jools, thanks.


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## jools (Nov 14, 2011)

I now know what DoB is and GE,,,,,,,,,,,, 

S''pose the Training camp is not marked on DoB because it's not "defensive" ,,,,,, looking around the database there would appear to be much that is missing from my area,,,,, I've got work to do!!!


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## night crawler (Nov 14, 2011)

Great stuff and some good finds, I do like the Railway Bondary markers you came across.


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## cptpies (Nov 14, 2011)

jools said:


> ,,you've lost me with DoB,,GL and holdfasts



You learn something new everyday . A holdfast is a ring of bolts that a weapon would have been bolted down to. Hence why I asked if anything was visible in the centre of the octagon. looking at the layout of them I suspect they were pits for 20mm LAA guns. I've placemarked the site in my overlay, If you find anything else defence related that's not on it then please let me know.


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## FlutterGirl (Nov 14, 2011)

Very nice report and some great photos too!


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## jools (Nov 14, 2011)

cptpies said:


> You learn something new everyday . A holdfast is a ring of bolts that a weapon would have been bolted down to. Hence why I asked if anything was visible in the centre of the octagon. looking at the layout of them I suspect they were pits for 20mm LAA guns. I've placemarked the site in my overlay, If you find anything else defence related that's not on it then please let me know.



A day passed without some learning is a day wasted!!

I'm not sure how you define "defence related" can you be more specific??

I haven't looked too closely at the DoB information but it would seem that there are no sites shown for training,, practice,, storage of munitions etc

Thinking back,,,,,,in the centre of each octagon there was a patch of pebbles about 2' diameter or square or,,,,  I thought it was where people had piled stones to surround a bonfire,,,,,, There is plenty of evidence of small fires at the edge of the dunes,,,,, attendant with the usual scattering of beer cans. My thinking were that people had used the octagons as a flat and convenient place to light a fire. Loads of driftwood is just yards away ,,,,the concrete would provide some shelter from the wind and somewhere to sit. But it might be that there is a recess in the center of each octogon which has filled with pebbles over time,,,,,,

,,just a thought 

We take the dogs there every month or so for a blast over the grass,,,,,,,,, I'll poke around for a holdfast,,,,,,,,,is there anything else I could look out for??

Do 20mm LAA guns employ water cooling?? the reason I ask is that there were two or three sets of 4 x concrete posts which I deduce were for supporting water tanks. With the main camp so close there would be no need to store fuel on that side of the bridge but if there was a requirement for supplies of fresh-water then these supports would do.

I didn't put this pic up before because of the shadows and the proximity of the girder bridge and the posts.






Anyone????,,,,,,,,,,,,,The railway posts seemed to be made using old lengths of rail with a cast top. The rail was not for mainline use as it was formed in a sort of omega shape and had holes punched into it's side flanges. It looks as though it is meant for an overhead crane or similar where the rail could be bolted direct to a girder. Does this make sense? I've never seen them before,,,, are they standard BR accesories??


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## cptpies (Nov 15, 2011)

To my knowledge 20mm LAA guns were air cooled, but my knowledge on that score is limited. The original Defence of Britain was limited to purely defence related sites but the extended version I have put together includes pretty much anything WWII related as it's all disappearing fast and needs to be documented.


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## jools (Nov 15, 2011)

Thanks for that ,,,,, I have a lot of work to do then  

I will photograph and provide map ref. for everything that I can identify as WW2


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## oldscrote (Nov 15, 2011)

With regard to the rail question this might explain things

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baulk_road[/ame]

The circular boundary markers were once common,I remember one in the woods at Monkton Farleigh now sadly gone probably looted by a 'collector'

http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=26530447


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## jools (Nov 15, 2011)

That's terrific,,, Thanks,,,so good to know about things 


next time I go wandering there I'll look out for more


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## oldscrote (Nov 15, 2011)

No problem Jools.If you look at Sennelager66s epic trip down the K and A canal you'll spot a lot of bridge rail being used for all sorts of things.


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## RichCooper (Nov 15, 2011)

Nice report thanks,Looks like a good place for a relaxed wander


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## Foxylady (Nov 19, 2011)

Some interesting remains there and a great looking site too. Love the tensioning post and the other bits and bobs. Cheers Jools.


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## Walrus75 (Nov 21, 2011)

jools said:


> These 6 octagonal structures (not in aerial pic) must have been gun placements
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The book also mentions that gunners on board merchant ships underwent training here, I wonder if those emplacements were built to reflect the size/shape of gun positions on the ships. There's no lockers and usual structural paraphinalia surrounding them that you see at other land-based HAA or LAA sites.

What continues to amaze me is the way that nature takes back the area so very quickly; looking at it now in comparison to the aerial picture you posted it's kinda hard to believe it was such a built up and no doubt busy place.


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## Walrus75 (Nov 21, 2011)

And in addition to my comment above I'm even more amazed now to just discover that it was still quite intact in the 80's --> http://www.aajlr.org/tonfanau/tonfanau_main.html <-- there's a good video clip on that page.

:shocked:

And I guess this is the lookout post you mentioned:


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## jools (Nov 21, 2011)

That's the one,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I never saw the bridge intact

I missed that video but I s'pose it might have been added recently. They had a big redevelopment programme some years ago to return the area to agricultural use and there used to be a big sign for the sheep to read but it's seems to have gone now.

It's a nice area to visit if you ever get near


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## urbantrecker (Dec 14, 2011)

*Towyn.*

I lived there as an eighties kid and the bridge was as your pic shows, full of holes but intact as was many relics of the militarys presence. Have you got any more pics? Its nostalgic in a good way, and those sheep never did learn to read the big signs!


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