# Bull Manor Owner on Radio



## vmlopes

Did anyone else hear the Mayor of Windsor & Maidenhead who also happens to be the owner of Bull Manor or Berkyn Manor as its officially known, slagging of urban explorers this morning on BBC Radio Berkshire??

He went on to say that Urban Exploration should be made a criminal offence and that a recent group of 5 explorers at the weekend were caught by the police with books stolen from the manor on them!!

Simon Cornwell, was interviewed a few minutes after defending and explaining scene....cant seem to find a podcast anywhere???


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## Mars Lander

wow thanks for sharing wll try and track that down there might be a podcast later or something, very interesting. 

What was the name of the show and what time was it on roughly?

Shame about the urbex baddies with the books if its true, shame its been named and out there for the masses now thru some pea brained policies elsewhere on the internet


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## vmlopes

It was on the Andrew Peach show this morning at approx' 7.20am ish...........the name has been out there for ages.

Agree the no marks that stole from there should be done for theft, simplez


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## Mars Lander

Whether name been out for ages or not this place should never have been, too special and vulnerable, but anyways am not gonna dwell on it.

Am hoping its on here tomorrow or sooner depending on when they update their 'catch-ups'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p012rqtg/Andrew_Peach_14_01_2013/


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## vmlopes

Think it will be available shortly here http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p012t7bk


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## Ramsgatonian

I hope civil trespass never becomes criminal! I wouldn't be able to ever get caught


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## alex76

vmlopes said:


> Agree the no marks that stole from there should be done for theft, simplez




I have been hearing about a lot of this lately where so called urbexers have been stealing items from these sites... well there not urbexers they are thieves and simple trespass becomes burglary I don’t know how they think they have the right to help them self to these late owners items it makes me sick to the gut it puts a bad name to us urbexers/photographers and will spoil it for us all just so they can make a quick buck on flee bay in my eyes these low life’s are as bad as the copper stealing pikys and should be caught and taken to court we all stick to the code of take nothing but photos and leave nothing but foot prints for a reason where as it stands 9 out of 10 chance you will get caught on a site you will be ask to leave and maybe escorted off the premises where if these thefts carry on there will be more chance of being arrested and prosecuted.
I believe we visit these beautiful buildings to document them before they are gone and dereliction can be a form of photography art.
Sorry for the rant on your post but this matter really rattles me 


Alex76


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## krela

Ramsgatonian said:


> I hope civil trespass never becomes criminal! I wouldn't be able to ever get caught



Me either, lots of us have jobs that require clean enhanced crb checks.


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## UE-OMJ

Its on there now, scroll to 1:26 in the broadcast.


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## mookster

This was bound to happen at some point with this place.

The tour bus has well and truly been in full swing, every tom dick and harry rocking up to take photos so it's unsurprising a few have been caught with dirty hands...I hope they hang their heads in shame.

Hopefully now this has happened - and there have been much beefier security arrangements installed as a result - the old girl can rest in peace.


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## krela

TBH I hope more people get caught red handed. It's theft, it's criminal, whoever does it should get what they deserve and maybe it will deter the rest.


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## Silent Hill

alex76 said:


> I have been hearing about a lot of this lately where so called urbexers have been stealing items from these sites... well there not urbexers they are thieves and simple trespass becomes burglary I don’t know how they think they have the right to help them self to these late owners items it makes me sick to the gut it puts a bad name to us urbexers/photographers and will spoil it for us all just so they can make a quick buck on flee bay in my eyes these low life’s are as bad as the copper stealing pikys and should be caught and taken to court we all stick to the code of take nothing but photos and leave nothing but foot prints for a reason where as it stands 9 out of 10 chance you will get caught on a site you will be ask to leave and maybe escorted off the premises where if these thefts carry on there will be more chance of being arrested and prosecuted.
> I believe we visit these beautiful buildings to document them before they are gone and dereliction can be a form of photography art.
> Sorry for the rant on your post but this matter really rattles me
> 
> 
> Alex76



Well said that man


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## gigi

It's disgusting.. We may however sound hypocritical as we are technically committing a civil offence by trespassing, but literally all the good natured majority of us want to do is take photos. I contacted the owner months ago and he was not interested in giving me permission to do a model shoot there. I feel sorry for him as he wanted to have it converted but the council overruled the plans and it's been sat there to waste. He must get so frustrated. And it doesnt bloody help that the "other website" now has a section naming all of the properties properly. I used to take the mick a bit, but the people who "codename" the sites have got it right, you have to do your work to find it. But alas, it can still be passed on and on through friends and then vandalised, graffed or burnt down. We can't protect them unfortunately, only the owners/security can. But what we can do is keep pictures and names of these types of properties out of the public eye. But then again, people love to show their pics.. A tough one


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## Ratters

krela said:


> TBH I hope more people get caught red handed. It's theft, it's criminal, whoever does it should get what they deserve and maybe it will deter the rest.



They should be named too IMO

I'm the same as serveral of you guys who need a clean enhanced CRB for work too.


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## UrbanX

If they're over 18 and are charged, they will be named 
I wonder if they are people known to the Urbex forums (I won't use the term explorer for them). Or if they are known burglars that have simply found the house from it being named on an Urbex forum, and had it as the pre arranged story? 
Surprised there's nothing in the local paper yet. If 5 people were arrested in one go round here, it'd be front page news!


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## nelly

They are no more Urban Explorers than football hooligans are football fans, they are simply thieves that hide behind the UE title in the hope of getting away with shit.

Mr Rayner hasnt done a lot for his cause by spouting two blatent lies.

1- That the property is being refurbished and
2 - You can go onto UE websites and they tell you how to enter the building

Nah

Anyway, I have spliced and uploaded the relevant bits of the radio programme if anybody wants to hear it, click on the link below

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/60071867/BM.mp3


Moo!!!


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## Judderman62

krela said:


> TBH I hope more people get caught red handed. It's theft, it's criminal, whoever does it should get what they deserve and maybe it will deter the rest.



very enthusiastically seconded


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## Judderman62

nice one nelly - cheers for that.


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## Munchh

The fact of individuals stealing from sites is nothing new, it's been going on since the year dot. Genuine honest explorers are rightly pissed off about it but it won't stop. Whenever it makes it into the media it's nearly always portrayed as ' everyone breaks in, everyone steals stuff' ie a one-sided view is nearly always given to the public. If you listened to the broadcast, particularly the 'Mayor's' contribution, then any right-minded person can see he's exaggerating for effect. "Every time they come they break in" simply isn't the truth. A great number of explorers have been to this site without incident.

There's very little we can do to change this perception as our hobby is perceived by 'average Joe/Joanna' as a bit odd frankly. No matter how many explorers try to give a more balanced view to the media, each time the subject comes into the public arena the same biased viewpoint is trotted out that we're all thieves and burglars who break in. If they're not going to take any notice of the fact that it's a few bad apples and not the majority then we're stymied.

The Press feed on any kind of sensationalism and always will, it's how they earn their living, but it's not the all-encompassing scourge that, for the sake of their viewing/listening/sales figures they like to pretend it is. 

At the moment we don't know who 'the 5' are, what they may or may not have done etc. Let's save our judgements for a time when we actually have all the facts.


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## UE-OMJ

Many of us dont break in, but we are all happy to use existing access points... which are usually just where a previous person has broken in. It's a thin line we walk.


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## Emerald Eve

ginasphoto said:


> It's disgusting.. We may however sound hypocritical as we are technically committing a civil offence by trespassing, but literally all the good natured majority of us want to do is take photos. I contacted the owner months ago and he was not interested in giving me permission to do a model shoot there. I feel sorry for him as he wanted to have it converted but the council overruled the plans and it's been sat there to waste. He must get so frustrated. And it doesnt bloody help that the "other website" now has a section naming all of the properties properly. I used to take the mick a bit, but the people who "codename" the sites have got it right, you have to do your work to find it. But alas, it can still be passed on and on through friends and then vandalised, graffed or burnt down. We can't protect them unfortunately, only the owners/security can. But what we can do is keep pictures and names of these types of properties out of the public eye. But then again, people love to show their pics.. A tough one



Hear hear!


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## Bones out

Ratters said:


> They should be named too IMO
> 
> I'm the same as serveral of you guys who need a clean enhanced CRB for work too.



And me :-(


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## nelly

Happy New Year everybody


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## UrbanX

Where where where?


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## nelly

A couple of weeks ago mate


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## mookster

nelly said:


> Well that didn't take long. Named and shamed.



Oh please paste it in, this should make interesting reading


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## UrbanX

Looking up one of the culprits. Not on any of the forums, but she has an urbex blog....


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## RichardH

mookster said:


> I hope they hang their heads in shame.



It may be that my age (and back pain - it's hideous at the moment) is making me less tolerant, but I'd prefer a more literal hanging. By their own entrails.


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## gigi

I have photos of the culprits sent to me by the owner. They are not very clear but one of them is definately that girl from the blog. I didn't ask for them. I was talking to him saying please don't tarnish all photographers with the same brush...


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## mrtoby

interesting, name and shame?


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## wolseyone

http://mimisioux.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/bull-manor/


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## UE-OMJ

mimisioux said: 
January 8, 2013
10:30
haha funny you say that because I did try to save a book. but when you get arrested with a book in the bag you then become a ‘burglar’ and not a ‘tresspasser’….. guess the house didn’t want anything to leave.


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## AllyB

This explains things well.


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## spungletrumpet

AllyB said:


> This explains things well.



Yes, you are totally correct.
It certainly explains an awful lot!


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## Simon

That was an interesting experience. I got the impression from chatting to the researchers that it would be a general interview about urban exploration. I didn't expect to be defending the scene against a disgruntled property owner.

However, if I'd known, then I'd still have gone on the show just to get the real urbex point across.

All the best,
Simon


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## UE-OMJ

You did well.


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## Munchh

UE-OMJ said:


> mimisioux said:
> January 8, 2013
> 10:30
> ................. guess the house didn’t want anything to leave.



No, the house and virtually the entire exploration community didn't want anything to leave.


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## UrbanX

Simon said:


> That was an interesting experience. I got the impression from chatting to the researchers that it would be a general interview about urban exploration. I didn't expect to be defending the scene against a disgruntled property owner.
> 
> However, if I'd known, then I'd still have gone on the show just to get the real urbex point across.
> 
> All the best,
> Simon



Came across perfect mate, good job!


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## alex76

Yeah nice one Simon job well done


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## Pen15

Bull Manor was once top of my list of my “to see places". Having spoken to many like minded folk on here I decided to cross it off the list. The reason for this was due to the sensitive nature and the distress it caused the owner. To me, it was not what U E is all about. The ever increasing need to go one better seems to be paramount when I view a lot of sites. One-up-man-ship seems to be dominant, it’s like a badge of honour amongst those who can boast, “Yes I have been to this place and I have been to that one too and not forgetting this place also!” You see where I am coming from? The whole concept of U E is lost. I nearly gave it all up because of this! 

I agree with most comments above, but I worry now for the future of this ever growing following. The media will pick up on this and no doubt will run with it on slow news days. Once it goes mainstream, as we all too often see with the majority of crazes etc, it will sound the death knell, with the possible change in laws. It has been well documented on other sites of those who succumbed to temptation and have as a result got caught. This doesn't put the rest of us in good light and will indeed paint a bad picture of U E.


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## wolseyone

Personally these hoarders houses do nothing for me 
creeping around someones house going through someones old belongings isnt my idea of exploring really 
but this hobby attracts all kinds 
people wanting to do model shoots 
people wanting to shoot music videos 
and people scanning these kind of forums for places to rob of the old belongings...
or steal the metal..


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## PaulPowers

^^^^^ This

My personal view is that if a site is sensitive and people are worried about it being emptied it shouldn't be in public view


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## Ratters

^^^ But a handful of photos posted online don't usually give away the location of the place.

It's when history is posted, the area it's in is posted & the place is refered to by it's real name that gives away locations....


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## mookster

Ratters said:


> ^^^ But a handful of photos posted online don't usually give away the location of the place.
> .



Unless you forget to blur out sensitive details like paperwork and envelopes..


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## krela

Plenty of sites have been identified from a few photos posted online.


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## jjstenso

RichardH said:


> I'd prefer a more literal hanging. By their own entrails.



Steady on. For a book?



krela said:


> Plenty of sites have been identified from a few photos posted online.



This.


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## Ratters

krela said:


> Plenty of sites have been identified from a few photos posted online.



See, I don't fully believe that as such. Yes, granted if as Mookster said sensitive info isn't obscured in images of paperwork & the like it's possible to search those few details but if I posted 3 images of for example a school showing a stairwell, classroom & a corridor how would you find the place...??


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## wolseyone

it starts when you find somewhere, tell someone you trust who in turn tells someone they trust
pretty soon someone who you thought was trustworthy puts it on a forum 
not naming sites is one way to combat it but everyone isnt in agreement on this 28dl for one 
named this site and thus let the floodgates open 
Bull manor had already been floating about on FB for a good few weeks before it even made it to non public on 28dl


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## krela

You can believe what you like, I know it for a fact. 

Simple things like using exif data in photos has been used to find out that someone was at a named site half an hour before an un-named site, that gives you a local area to narrow down your search, etc. There's a whole bunch of information you can give away unintentionally, particularly on flickr. So there's a top tip, wipe the exif data on your photos... 

It's not always true of course, but it's not necessarily as simple as you might think either. So the truth remains that if you want to be absolutely sure about the security of a site then don't share it. Simple as.

Even the European way isn't foolproof, as a fun challenge I've found a fair few 'hidden' places with a bit of research, and I know sweet FA about the Euro scene or anyone in it.


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## Priority 7

Ratters said:


> See, I don't fully believe that as such. Yes, granted if as Mookster said sensitive info isn't obscured in images of paperwork & the like it's possible to search those few details but if I posted 3 images of for example a school showing a stairwell, classroom & a corridor how would you find the place...??



Devils in the details... granted some pics give nothing away other than time and date if you leave the exif data there but others seemingly give nothing away but when paired with others of the site allow you to pin point it...I know of one very choice site that a friend found from two pics and one was the gate


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## AllyB

Don't post up externals and watch the structural features as well. Internal shots with distinct windows are a good way to give the game away.


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## Ratters

I don't share exif. I've also changed dates in camera too before a second location so they aren't linked in that way you mentioned Krela. But, saying that, we did recently find that Chateau Pol place that popped up.

Again, if there are already photos of the place & reports up online then yes that does make things easier as you can cross reference the images to existing reports etc


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## PaulPowers

wolseyone said:


> not naming sites is one way to combat it but everyone isnt in agreement on this 28dl for one
> named this site and thus let the floodgates open
> Bull manor had already been floating about on FB for a good few weeks before it even made it to non public on 28dl



The place was a tourist hotspot before it was named on 28DL 

I think pretty much everyone knew where it was and it was named all over flickr and facebook

If I can find drains from a few pictures, no history and a general area than a manor house really isn't going to be that difficult


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## krela

I wasn't saying that it's impossible to hide a location, I was saying it can be possible to identify a location from a few photos unless you take great care, and most people don't. 

Plenty of people reading this wont even know what exif data is!


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## Squirrell911

One point thats been missed is that it was some burd from abroad that came over and had these books away and NOT a member of 28? Shock horror, theres other people exploring buildings too that arent members of forums yet when stuff does get pinched most of the shit travels towards 28 members.


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## rectory-rat

krela said:


> Plenty of people reading this wont even know what exif data is!



Yep, that would be me 

~RR


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## AllyB

Squirrell911 said:


> One point thats been missed is that it was some burd from abroad that came over and had these books away and NOT a member of 28? Shock horror, theres other people exploring buildings too that arent members of forums yet when stuff does get pinched most of the shit travels towards 28 members.



Unfortunately the reputation of some of the members means that people make assumtions that may or may not be true.


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## wea5el

Anything can be found, I was once given a challenge to find 3 planes in a field, somewhere in Germany from 1 picture with no identifying marks on the planes, took me half an hour. The hobbits house took even less.


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## Squirrell911

AllyB said:


> Unfortunately the reputation of some of the members means that people make assumtions that may or may not be true.



"May or may not be true"
Its on her fuckin blog FFS! how much more evidence do you need to say she aint on 28?


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## Mars Lander

wea5el said:


> Anything can be found, I was once given a challenge to find 3 planes in a field, somewhere in Germany from 1 picture with no identifying marks on the planes, took me half an hour. The hobbits house took even less.



Yeah but the Hobbits House is really easy..


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## krela

Yep sometimes Gloucestershire feels like the Shire.


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## wea5el

AltDayOut said:


> Yeah but the Hobbits House is really easy..



lol ... are you snowed in and bored? 

Realise now I meant factory not house (cue the pics of people making Hobbits on a production line )


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## krela

Tis just a strange quirk of coincidence that there is also an urbex tourist location called the Hobbit House lol.


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## Munchh

Squirrell911 said:


> One point thats been missed is that it was some burd from abroad that came over and had these books away and NOT a member of 28? Shock horror, theres other people exploring buildings too that arent members of forums yet when stuff does get pinched most of the shit travels towards 28 members.



I have stayed neutral about all of this Squirrell because of exactly the point you make. If I were to be judgemental at all it would be towards the person or persons actually responsible of theft regardless of whether they belonged to any forum or which one.

It says something about this particular forum though that you can post here almost with impunity and without your comments being moderated beforehand. I like this element of how DP is run. I feel freedom of speech is less censored here. I keep up with events over on 28 and on the whole it's a good forum. In fact I joined 28 before DP, however I'm sorry to say that I've often been treated with disdain there. As a consequence, I rarely post there now. It's worth remembering that it's because of the way your forum is perceived that you often receive undue criticism. If you can't find a way to reverse this perception then you'll probably just have to live with it I'm afraid. Maybe as a Mod you can work on this. I do hope so. 

The sad thing for me and many others I suspect is that it would be nice to feel that I were as free to post an opinion on 28 in a similar discussion as you are here. Rightly or wrongly I'm wary of doing so. It's also a sad reflection that several other well known members of 28 who seldom post here have also posted defensively on other threads, which only seems to occur when a contentious issue or differences between the forums are raised. It's getting a little tedious. It would be better received if those of you who did this participated in a more positive, frequent and even-handed way rather than simply selectively using it to defend your own forum. 

I personally don't like anyone slagging off any other exploration forum that isn't their 'preferred' one. It's petty and childish.

Ultimately everyone has their own way of doing things and adults can rise above mickey-taking. For the record I believe all the forums are valid and that some are definitely painted blacker than they deserve by a few small-minded commentators. This should stop, as should the general in-fighting. Sadly the theiving will go on unchecked. I don't believe it's within our power to fully stop it. We are where we are and we can't easily go backwards.

We all explore in our own fashion and it would be far better if we didn't bicker amongst ourselves. We are simply handing more ammunition to those who would see our activities curtailed.

These are not directed criticisms, merely observations which you may take as you will. I wish you well.


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## Dirus_Strictus

Very well put Munchh, a very even handed and clear headed contribution, I do hope that people take note and stop the bickering. Unfortunately I feel that as your logical comments are based on 50 years of life's experience, the younger hotheads out there will still think they have an axe to grind.

Sadly the self 'censorship' of photographic content has somewhat cancelled out the main reason why I joined this forum. I started out by mooching around WWI/II sites on the East Coast in the mid 50's - long before the habit was given fancy names. We were just lads on holiday, and as a 12 year old with a first camera photographs were taken and kept for some reason. ( September 1955, the Humber defence works at Humberston). I am now long past active exploration even if I wanted to participate, but photographs of buildings and sites have always been of interest to me. Sadly, seemingly endless images of shelves containing the detritus of a hoarders life are no substitute for some quality interior and exterior images as far as I am concerned.

Sadly the price we pay for progress seems to be the steady erosion of things many of us have taken for granted over the years.


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## BenCooper

> It says something about this particular forum though that you can post here almost with impunity and without your comments being moderated beforehand. I like this element of how DP is run. I feel freedom of speech is less censored here. I keep up with events over on 28 and on the whole it's a good forum. In fact I joined 28 before DP, however I'm sorry to say that I've often been treated with disdain there. As a consequence, I rarely post there now. It's worth remembering that it's because of the way your forum is perceived that you often receive undue criticism. If you can't find a way to reverse this perception then you'll probably just have to live with it I'm afraid. Maybe as a Mod you can work on this. I do hope so.



You can post on 28DL with impunity, and everyone apart from total newbies is unmoderated. The one thing, the only thing we don't tolerate is people making personal attacks. I'm sure if someone posted messages on here impugning Krela, for example, exactly the same action would be taken.


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## krela

Hi,

This isn't the place for forum wars. If you want to do it, do it on your own websites.

Ta.


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