# Martyrs' Catholic Church, Apr. '11



## The Archivist (Apr 19, 2011)

I found this by chance one day on the edge of a housing estate after taking a wrong turning and couldn't pass up the opportunity to check it out. It's a small church built in the 1950s or 60s and dedicated to Roman Catholic Martyrs of the Reformation period. It closed 'temporarily' in 2008 due to a leaking roof which then proved too expensive to repair. The building is still owned by the church and is likely to be re-secured in the near future. For obvious reasons, I will not be revealing its exact location.

Apologies for the quality, I foolishly forgot my tripod. 






1. West End





2. South Aspect





3. Inside: note two doors of confessional on the right





4. Towards the Altar





5. Statue





6. Final Hymns





7. We are Friends of Jesus





8. Stations of the Cross





9. Window





10. Vestry





11. Vestment wardrobe





12. Communion wine and candles





Broken Crucifix

I spent about half an hour here soaking in the atmosphere and occasionally taking the odd picture. The church was permeated by an air of tranquility, and apart from a huge statue of Jesus which gave me a start at first, did not feel at all uncomfortable or threatening - one of the few derelict places I have been in which I have felt entirely at ease.


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## scribble (Apr 19, 2011)

Lovely design for the Stations of the Cross. What an unusual find!


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## Vertex (Apr 19, 2011)

Really cool! Good work.


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## dizzydebs (Apr 19, 2011)

Love it! Love it! Love it


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## godzilla73 (Apr 19, 2011)

Very interesting indeed. If memory serves me correctly, a vestry in a Catholic church is a sacristy (?). Not sure it makes much difference, as these are marvellous pictures. Very unusual to find a Catholic church that isn't being used, but isn't up for sale, as the RC church in England (like most others) is boracic.
Thanks for sharing
GDZ


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## RichardH (Apr 19, 2011)

godzilla73 said:


> Very interesting indeed. If memory serves me correctly, a vestry in a Catholic church is a sacristy (?).



Random factoid of the day (before I hit the gin and try to forget that it ever happened)...

"Vestry" and "sacristy" are used interchangeably these days, but centuries ago they had quite distinct meanings. The sacristy was where the sacred (same word-root) vessels, etc, were kept, cleaned, and what have you, when not in use. In pre-Reformation England, before the continental fad of "confessionals" had really caught on, the sacristy was usually where the priest heard confessions.

The vestry served two functions: 1) it was where people vested (ie dressed) in their liturgical robes; and 2) as it was usually quite large and well-heated (to stop the robes getting damp) it served as the meeting room for parish committee meetings. This last usage is still (by the skin of its teeth) maintained in the Church of England, where the annual meeting to elect the Church Wardens is still called the Annual Vestry Meeting.

Now, if you'll excuse me, the Mother's Ruin is calling me.


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## The Archivist (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks for that both. I'm not over familiar with Roman Catholic churches myself, but on a slightly related note I've known many Anglican churches that have both a vestry and a sacristy. My church at home has both, the sacristy being an antechamber of the vestry. This seems to be a fairly common arrangement in larger, later churches, particularly in the High Anglican tradition. 

This church has a variety of ante-rooms from the nave, but it seems that the room in question served the dual purpose of vestry and sacristy.


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## RichardH (Apr 19, 2011)

The Archivist said:


> ...I've known many Anglican churches that have both a vestry and a sacristy. My church at home has both, the sacristy being an antechamber of the vestry. This seems to be a fairly common arrangement in larger, later churches, particularly in the High Anglican tradition.
> 
> This church has a variety of ante-rooms from the nave, but it seems that the room in question served the dual purpose of vestry and sacristy.



Yes, the sacristy-behind-the-vestry is quite common in the larger medieval churches too, so it would have been copied by the Oxford Movement. The sacristy was the more secure area, and frequently had very small windows and very thick doors. The priest would have also made his private devotions in here before serving the parish community, which is another reason for the intimacy.

I meant to say before, you've made a nice pictorial record here. Some great shots.


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## Foxylady (Apr 22, 2011)

RichardH said:


> The sacristy was the more secure area, and frequently had very small windows and very thick doors...


Please feel free to correct me on this, but I think I remember reading somewhere that the sacristy can also be the term used for a locked cupboard in which the wine and precious altar accoutrements were kept. Or am I getting mixed up here? I think you'd better pass me the gin, Richard! 

I really like this church. I find it very interesting despite, or because of, it's brutal architecture. The crescent shaped pews are great. Very nice find, Archivist.


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## cuboard (Apr 28, 2011)

this place looks amazing what a great find!!! nice one


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## RichardH (Apr 28, 2011)

Foxylady said:


> Please feel free to correct me on this, but I think I remember reading somewhere that the sacristy can also be the term used for a locked cupboard in which the wine and precious altar accoutrements were kept. Or am I getting mixed up here? I think you'd better pass me the gin, Richard!



Sorry, Milady, didn't notice your reply. I am covered with shame at my lapse, and will flog myself with damp tagliatelle when I get home.

I've never heard of a cupboard being referred to as a sacristy, but I don't think it would be an inaccurate appellation. Some really small churches of the late Saxon/Early Norman period didn't even have a vestry. Such things as needed to be kept locked away were stored in cupboards in the walls, known as aumbries.

I'll let you know when the gin tanker next arrives.


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## hamishsfriend (Apr 28, 2011)

Foxylady said:


> Please feel free to correct me on this, but I think I remember reading somewhere that the sacristy can also be the term used for a locked cupboard in which the wine and precious altar accoutrements were kept. Or am I getting mixed up here? I think you'd better pass me the gin, Richard!



I think you perhaps mean the aumbry, that is the small recessed cupboard where consecrated wine and wavers are traditionally being stored? A number of medieval churches still have the original aumbry. It can commonly be found in the chancel north wall. I've as yet to see one in a sacristy or vestry but then again, these are usually locked and inaccessible.

Oops - should have read *RichardH*'s post first - I see you've had the same thought.


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## RichardH (Apr 28, 2011)

hamishsfriend said:


> Oops - should have read *RichardH*'s post first - I see you've had the same thought.



I am thinking the thoughts of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on coffee.

Using an aumbry for holding the Blessed Sacrament was forbidden in the 14th Century, I think, because of their propensity for being used as general storage cupboards for things which needed to be locked away (altar vessels, money, the priest's lunch, etc). Some Anglican churches started to use them for that purpose in the 19th Century, I think, although tabernacles (essentially secure, ornate, purpose-built cupboards) are now more common.

Now that I think about it, there are some rather old churches in Leicestershire and Derbyshire (and, I'm sure, elsewhere) where the stonework of the vestry is somewhat newer than that of the church itself. I guess that single-room churches were much more common until relatively recently.


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## hamishsfriend (Apr 28, 2011)

RichardH said:


> I guess that single-room churches were much more common until relatively recently.



Most medieval churches comprised a nave and a chancel, and a porch, of course, which was an important meeting place. In the Middle Ages all these churches were, of course, Roman Catholic, and I think that most would have had a sacristy, commonly situated near the altar. The priest would have entered the church through the priest door in the chancel, never through the nave. The nave was the public section, the chancel was the priest's. Valuables were stored in the parish chest, often iron-bound and with a number of locks and keys so that more than one people were required to open it.

Some special valuables were indeed stored in little cupboards in the sacristy/vestry, I don't think this is an aumbry, though.


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## Foxylady (Apr 28, 2011)

RichardH said:


> ...and will flog myself with damp tagliatelle when I get home..


Now that's something you don't see every day! 



RichardH said:


> Such things as needed to be kept locked away were stored in cupboards in the walls, known as aumbries.





hamishsfriend said:


> I think you perhaps mean the aumbry, that is the small recessed cupboard where consecrated wine and wavers are traditionally being stored? A number of medieval churches still have the original aumbry. It can commonly be found in the chancel north wall.


Aumbries! Yes!!! Cheers, guys...I think I must be going doolally tap in my old age. That's exactly what I was thinking of, but got mixed up with the names. The ones I've seen have indeed been situated in the chancel north wall. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## Foxylady (Apr 28, 2011)

hamishsfriend said:


> ...most would have had a sacristy, commonly situated near the altar. The priest would have entered the church through the priest door in the chancel...


I was trying to figure out where the sacristy would have been, and that's answered my question nicely. In fact in many old churches, I've noticed that that part of the church is still used by vicars and churchwardens for church business. Otherwise, it's now where a later organ has been fitted and part of the vestry is kept separately for the sacristy. Cheers, H.


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## RichardH (Apr 28, 2011)

Foxylady said:


> Now that's something you don't see every day!



I should probably sell tickets.



Foxylady said:


> Aumbries! Yes!!! Cheers, guys...I think I must be going doolally tap in my old age. That's exactly what I was thinking of, but got mixed up with the names. The ones I've seen have indeed been situated in the chancel north wall. Thanks for clearing that up.



I was just chatting with someone on IM about this. (See what you've started? Deathly quiet in the office; wish I'd taken the week off.) He is a bit of a historian of pre- and post-Reformation architecture, and is the wellspring for most of my random factoids about this topic. He mentioned that he has seen the term "sacring-chest" meaning an aumbry or chest where the sacred vessels were kept.

@hamishsfriend: Thanks, I had forgotten about the parish chest. The same source as above has just told me that the chest would have housed the parish registers, money, deeds of gift, etc. Sacred vessels, altar cloths, etc, would have been stored in an aumbry or a separate chest in the sacristy, because it was (and certainly in the Orthodox tradition still is) improper for them to be touched by anyone but an ordained minister or someone who had received an explicit blessing to care for them. If the church was rich enough to have its own vestments, they would be kept in a separate chest too, but it was not uncommon for clergy to have their own vestments - and altar vessels - which they would keep with them. Now I think of it, I'm sure I've seen a few very old, vestry/sacristy-deficient churches with quite an array of ancient chests, some, as you say, with multiple locks. I imagine that a small-but-wealthy church would have looked rather cluttered with cupboards in the chancel wall and chests stacked in the nave!

btw, I love the photo. Looks like my uncle.


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## hamishsfriend (Apr 28, 2011)

RichardH said:


> btw, I love the photo. Looks like my uncle.



Lol. Tis Simon of Sudbury. http://www.sudburyhistorysociety.co.uk/SimonofSudbury.htm#Bishop


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