# BBC news this morning



## ricasso (Feb 11, 2011)

Did any one else see that report on the bbc news programme this morning regarding vandalism of derelict property?
while the reporter was wandering around an old farmhouse it was said, and i quote "self styled urban explorers" would enter property closed to the general public and while 'some' would leave little evidence of their visit others would not,then the camera pans to shots of grafitti and general destruction!
dont know if it can be acessed on iplayer or the bbc website but its worth seeing!


----------



## night crawler (Feb 11, 2011)

I saw that as well, should be able to view it on BBC news


----------



## mookster (Feb 11, 2011)

Yeah I saw it as well....and as well as that report they also had a reporter down in London's sewer system as well for a totally separate thing, not a bad morning.


----------



## ricasso (Feb 11, 2011)

just been trying mate, for 'some' reason its about the only story they havn't highlited for today!
it could be worth contacting them though, after all it was hardly unbiased well researched reporting was it!


----------



## ricasso (Feb 11, 2011)

mookster said:


> Yeah I saw it as well....and as well as that report they also had a reporter down in London's sewer system as well for a totally separate thing, not a bad morning.



not a very good morning either, considering they were painting urbexing with the old 'vandalism' brush again!


----------



## Bunker Bill (Feb 11, 2011)

I saw it also, wonder where that farm is in Winchester, have to start googling


----------



## ricasso (Feb 11, 2011)

ricasso said:


> not a very good morning either, considering they were painting urbexing with the old 'vandalism' brush again! when you realise that urbexers were the only group of people mentioned in the report, no mention of pikeys,chavs etc, the general public in there infinate wisdom will always believe what they've just seen, as a result we get seen as the bad guys yet again!


----------



## Seahorse (Feb 11, 2011)

We need to improve our Public Profile.

I'm going to start wearing a suit and tie on my explores from now on.


----------



## krela (Feb 11, 2011)

Seahorse said:


> We need to improve our Public Profile.
> 
> I'm going to start wearing a suit and tie on my explores from now on.



Eh? I've always done that.

It does get a bit tedious cleaning the mud off my spats all the time though.


----------



## ricasso (Feb 11, 2011)

ive just sent the BBC news an email voicing my concern's regarding their report, im not holding my breath though !!!


----------



## Foxylady (Feb 11, 2011)

ricasso said:


> ive just sent the BBC news an email voicing my concern's regarding their report, im not holding my breath though !!!


Good idea. I'll do the same. Mind, I don't blame you for not holding your breath mate. Certain leaked documents have shown directives from bosses to newsreaders to say things in a specific way or use specific words in order to create bias...not about this subject, but about the election reform campaign, which is even worse. Don't get me started! lol


----------



## highcannons (Feb 11, 2011)

Foxylady said:


> Good idea. I'll do the same. Mind, I don't blame you for not holding your breath mate. Certain leaked documents have shown directives from bosses to newsreaders to say things in a specific way or use specific words in order to create bias...not about this subject, but about the election reform campaign, which is even worse. Don't get me started! lol



Kinda reminds me of back in the day when some pubs wouldn't serve me cos I had a leather jacket on.....bike rider lobby groups battled against stereotyping for years and got no where, things are only better cos most bike rider are now weekend warriors/leisure users. Theres so many more interesting things to do than try to re educate thicko's!


----------



## Foxylady (Feb 11, 2011)

highcannons said:


> Theres so many more interesting things to do than try to re educate thicko's!


I agree, highcannons. Although when it comes to the media, they should be held accountable.


----------



## Seahorse (Feb 11, 2011)

krela said:


> Eh? I've always done that.
> 
> It does get a bit tedious cleaning the mud off my spats all the time though.



I actually did once though. I was driving past the old brickworks at Cruden Bay and noticed a chance to get in. Unfortunately I was on my way back from an interview. Fortunately, my suit only cost a fiver from Oxfam.

Sadly, the brickworks is now gone, as is the Marshall horizontal single cylinder engine. But it was a prompt to try to keep a camera with me at all times. When I remember, that is.


----------



## Engineer (Feb 11, 2011)

The problem is that however principled we are in our research/exploration many forums are used as a 'Reference Work' for those intent on vandalism or financial gain/trophy hunting.

WE INADVERTENTLY DEFEAT OUR OWN AIMS!

Rant over, feel free to delete.


----------



## Seahorse (Feb 11, 2011)

Conversely, without prior entry being gained by those who vandalise and otherwise destroy, many places would remain forever inaccessible.

It's a moral dilemma right enough.


----------



## krela (Feb 11, 2011)

Engineer said:


> The problem is that however principled we are in our research/exploration many forums are used as a 'Reference Work' for those intent on vandalism or financial gain/trophy hunting.
> 
> WE INADVERTENTLY DEFEAT OUR OWN AIMS!
> 
> Rant over, feel free to delete.



Do you really think so?

I don't really consider the problem to be any worse than I remember it being in the 70s or 80s where vandalism and asset stripping was equally as bad if not worse, and the internet didn't even exist in a public form then.

Sure there are undoubtedly people in our midst who have less than admirable aims, its been proven to be so many times. However they will still exist and do what they do whether they're here or not, the only difference is they wouldn't be able to call themselves urban explorers they would just be simple thieves/vandals as they always have been.


----------



## lost (Feb 11, 2011)

I don't consider myself an "urban explorer", so I'm alright.


----------



## manof2worlds (Feb 11, 2011)

Here's a link to the story:

BBC Story


----------



## Engineer (Feb 11, 2011)

Seahorse said:


> Conversely, without prior entry being gained by those who vandalise and otherwise destroy, many places would remain forever inaccessible.
> 
> It's a moral dilemma right enough.



It's not a major problem (IMHO) if the site is going to be demolished or re-developed as at least records are kept of the site 'as was' to its final demise

It becomes a major problem when it involves sites that are not transient in nature, mines, tunnels, ROC posts etc.
Such sites have been explored quietly for many years without problem but now they are on 'to do' lists and attract the attention of the powers that be.
This has led to many be sealed, some very permanently.


----------



## Engineer (Feb 11, 2011)

krela said:


> Do you really think so?
> 
> I don't really consider the problem to be any worse than I remember it being in the 70s or 80s where vandalism and asset stripping was equally as bad if not worse, and the internet didn't even exist in a public form then.
> 
> Sure there are undoubtedly people in our midst who have less than admirable aims, its been proven to be so many times. However they will still exist and do what they do whether they're here or not, the only difference is they wouldn't be able to call themselves urban explorers they would just be simple thieves/vandals as they always have been.



If nothing else I think the advent of the internet and almost universal access to transport has been a double edged sword.
Bear in mind this is only the rambling of an old git who started his explorations in a different world, the 1950s.


----------



## ricasso (Feb 11, 2011)

krela said:


> Do you really think so?
> 
> I don't really consider the problem to be any worse than I remember it being in the 70s or 80s where vandalism and asset stripping was equally as bad if not worse, and the internet didn't even exist in a public form then.
> 
> Sure there are undoubtedly people in our midst who have less than admirable aims, its been proven to be so many times. However they will still exist and do what they do whether they're here or not, the only difference is they wouldn't be able to call themselves urban explorers they would just be simple thieves/vandals as they always have been.



while i completly agree with you Krela I would say that even though WE know who these thieves/vandals are, when the general public see the vandalism on their tv screen while a reporter is talking about urban explorers (in particular) then that puts a name to the culprits, (in the publics eye).
much the same as has been mentioned before,bikers in leather jackets etc all became hells angels after bad press by the media, its just a bit worrying when probably 95% of people have never heard of urbex before, that suddenly its being linked to vandalisim,
im sure any old bikers that were riding in the 70s (like myself) are thinking "here we go again"!


----------



## krela (Feb 11, 2011)

> Back in Dover, the new partnership is struggling to find ways of deterring self-styled "urban explorers", who make a hobby out of defying padlocks and bars to gain access to places not open to the public.
> 
> Some of them merely do it to observe and take photos but an uncaring minority want to cause damage or remove a souvenir.



As I said before then, what they actually mean then is that they're struggling to find ways of deterring vandals and thieves.


----------



## krela (Feb 11, 2011)

Actually I would say that the article is surprisingly accurate. There are a minority of self-styled urban explorers who do do it to create damage and streal things. It's an unfortunate case of 'if the cap fits'.

If you're that bothered about it I would suggest tackling those in the urban exploration community who do vandalise and steal rather than try and change the (correct) perceptions of the media.


----------



## ricasso (Feb 11, 2011)

krela said:


> Actually I would say that the article is surprisingly accurate. There are a minority of self-styled urban explorers who do do it to create damage and streal things. It's an unfortunate case of 'if the cap fits'.
> 
> If you're that bothered about it I would suggest tackling those in the urban exploration community who do vandalise and steal rather than try and change the (correct) perceptions of the media.



sorry, point taken, if i do seem overly bothered its only because i care.


----------



## krela (Feb 11, 2011)

ricasso said:


> sorry, point taken, if i do seem overly bothered its only because i care.



I completely agree, I care too. Why do you think there's a page about ethics and the law stickied at the top of every forum and a statement about the law in the footer of the site? 

It's also worth remembering that any 'group' official or otherwise will always have its bad seeds and the media will invariably judge the group on the bad seeds and not the whole, it's the nature of the society we live in. That's why many of us here don't consider ourselves 'urban explorers' and are sympathetic both to the places we document/aim to learn about, and to 'the cause' as outlined in that news article.


----------



## swanseamale47 (Feb 11, 2011)

Foxylady said:


> Good idea. I'll do the same. Mind, I don't blame you for not holding your breath mate. Certain leaked documents have shown directives from bosses to newsreaders to say things in a specific way or use specific words in order to create bias...not about this subject, but about the election reform campaign, which is even worse. Don't get me started! lol



Yep it's just the Beeb spouting the party line (watch how often global warming and obesity get mentioned)


----------



## Seahorse (Feb 11, 2011)

Speaking of vandalised heritage sites, and without wishing to sound racist, I'm blaming the Russians for some of the more prominent grafitti at Torry Battery in Aberdeen.

Either that, or we have neds with elevated linguistic skills. Hmm, that's a ridiculous conclusion. Russians it is.


----------



## MD (Feb 11, 2011)

once again its the actions of a small group that make everyone out to be wrong uns 


Linky


----------



## Derelict-UK (Feb 11, 2011)

MD said:


> once again its the actions of a small group that make everyone out to be wrong uns
> 
> 
> Linky



A lot of the top players on 28days are bad for this kind of thing, I call them 'Posh Pikies'.

It's a shame that they have to use UE as cover for their thieving ways though, as said by MD, it brings the bad light on all of us who are there to enjoy sites. If you put the infamous Cardiff PDF together with Raddogs ebay account, you have enough evidence to warrant an investigation imo.

If the police were that bothered, it wouldn't be hard to view the places an explorer had been from their reports on the net and then link their ebay sales. 

---

In regards to the Grand Shaft, it wouldn't take them more than 15 minutes to block the entrance people use to get in there, it's a joke. And if they locked the gate at the top of the stairs, no one would be able to get in anyway.

Simple measures make all the difference! 

And the Fort is open to all the public, you don't have to climb anything to get in so how they can associate that graffiti with us lot is beyond me.


----------



## Priority 7 (Feb 11, 2011)

Spooky how a while back it was actually a BBC reporter who was filmed ripping up a chain fence to gain access to Severalls??
My it shocks me how it seems to be anything for a good story, no matter how tainted the teller. I have to agree with MD and others, while only being new to the UE I keep hearing about certain infamous UEr's who seem unable to keep their hands of trinkets. The few sites I have had the pleasure to visit have also still had some great items lying around that give the site its aura, I would never consider removing them.


----------



## godzilla73 (Feb 11, 2011)

Derelict-UK said:


> A lot of the top players on 28days are bad for this kind of thing, I call them 'Posh Pikies'.
> 
> It's a shame that they have to use UE as cover for their thieving ways though, as said by MD, it brings the bad light on all of us who are there to enjoy sites. If you put the infamous Cardiff PDF together with Raddogs ebay account, you have enough evidence to warrant an investigation imo.
> 
> ...



D-UK is absolutely right about the Dover stuff - English Heritage are as bad as any other government agency when it comes to being bothered about the bits that don't appeal to white middle class tourists. Most of the stuff in Dover is on open access land (South foreland, Citadel, Farthingloe, Drop Redoubt) and any damage or graffitti remains, generally, because the local council and other authorities are not discharging their responsibilities correctly, in terms of maintaning what are effectively publicly owned structures. The problem is that there isn't money to be made in HAA batteries and the like!
GDZ


----------



## mimidaler (Feb 12, 2011)

i think the bbc are out of line on this one, the writer clearly didnt research properly. I truly beleive in 100 years time historians will be paying you all a lot for your photos as i think they are of massive important historical value, as well as the artistic value. The problem with our past is that we dont know what happened so learnign from mistakes and documenting for the future is really important. Aside from this it shows the shocking level of waste and decay left behind by military, hospitals etc. Vandalism is always going to occur where there is anything left to rot, regardless of an internet forum, but its quite clear that a bridge needs to be made between the owners of the larger sites and true urban explorers.


----------



## Seahorse (Feb 12, 2011)

mimidaler said:


> I truly beleive in 100 years time historians will be paying you all a lot for your photos



I should live so long. :biglaugh:


----------



## V70 (Feb 12, 2011)

Quality reporting as usual... full of factual statements and pats on the backs for the council officials who are doing their best to fight the losing battle against "our types" 

I don't see myself as an "urban explorer" either though. I see myself as a guy who likes to take photos of old buildings and places, using entrances that are already available to anyone who spots them


----------



## krela (Feb 12, 2011)

I would also suggest that a majority of "urban explorers" couldn't give a toss about the history, research or documentation. It's all about the buzz and kudos for many.

There's nothing wrong with that, but it makes it difficult to justify the hobby on those grounds if that's not why people do it.


----------



## phill.d (Feb 12, 2011)

krela said:


> I would also suggest that a majority of "urban explorers" couldn't give a toss about the history, research or documentation. It's all about the buzz and kudos for many.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with that, but it makes it difficult to justify the hobby on those grounds if that's not why people do it.



You've hit the nail right on the head with that statement. U.E is a double edged sword. Documenting some of these places, and detailing the history online for posterity, not only for people interested in exploration, but for Joe public who wouldn't normally see them, can get a lot of stick from the so called 'L33T' exploration circle. 

It's fine to post these locations locked away on 'certain' forums (not D.P) only available to the elite 
(but they forget anyone can read U.E forums too) 
But posting the stuff on sites like flickr gets blamed for encouraging other people to look around them. Not only explorers, but the thieves, and vandals. Most of these L33T explorers were themselves inspired by seeing these places on websites like flickr in the first place, It was ok for them too start U.E, but not others who come after them??

There's far too many contradictory rules and politics in U.E for me to class myself as an Urban explorer as well. 
Just a guy with a camera who does it my own way lol. 

Interesting points raised here, I'm sure people will be arguing the toss for many years to come


----------



## ricasso (Feb 12, 2011)

erm, ive been out of the loop for a while, whats a 'L33T explorer'?


----------



## krela (Feb 12, 2011)

ricasso said:


> erm, ive been out of the loop for a while, whats a 'L33T explorer'?



l33t is a derogatory term for people who consider themselves to be the "elite".


----------



## ricasso (Feb 12, 2011)

ah, I see, thanks for that mate.


----------



## Lhiannan Shee (Feb 14, 2011)

This thread got me googling, and I am both shocked and disgusted at the sheer amount of things that have been stolen and sold on Ebay by so-called explorers, certain forum owners and moderators. It seems to be pretty public knowledge now, but I had no idea, it's actually made me feel quite sad


----------



## smiler (Feb 14, 2011)

krela said:


> Eh? I've always done that.
> 
> It does get a bit tedious cleaning the mud off my spats all the time though.



Wear brown ones Krela, covers a multitude of mishaps!!!
Smiler


----------



## smiler (Feb 14, 2011)

I believe we all care, we all get sick when we see the damage done by unthinking idiots, destroying what we should be cherishing and protecting, by recording what we see we leave a record of what there was left of our past the last time we looked. 

Plus we like a good nose around places we shouldn’t be in.


----------



## hydealfred (Feb 14, 2011)

This thread gives hope - 

http://www.airfieldinformationexcha...-Notice-regarding-quot-Urban-Exploration-quot

Make sure you read to the end. I have spoken to others and DP appears to have a better standing than other similiar products. Long may it continue with the high standards that sets it apart.


----------



## kathyms (Feb 15, 2011)

Seahorse said:


> We need to improve our Public Profile.
> 
> I'm going to start wearing a suit and tie on my explores from now on.



better gets me suit out then. being serious we should all send complaints to the bbc. maybe we should ask them to come on a visit with us all.


----------



## Derelict-UK (Feb 16, 2011)

kathyms said:


> better gets me suit out then. being serious we should all send complaints to the bbc. maybe we should ask them to come on a visit with us all.



What and watch everyone tell the reporter to f**k off when he/she asks to go on an explore with people?

Hardly a warm welcome we give Journalists!!


----------

