# Royal Crest help, please



## MD (Dec 7, 2011)

i bought myself a nice enamel sign at the weekend 
advertising Rowntree pastilles 
in the middle of the sign is this crest 



photo by M D Allen, on Flickr

can anyone tell me if its queen elizabeth of Victoria? 
I've done some googling but all I've come up with is 
Honi soit qui mal y pense
('Evil to him who evil thinks')

the full sign 



photo by M D Allen, on Flickr




which is the motto of the Order of the Garter 
cheers 
matt


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## Foxylady (Dec 7, 2011)

Matt, I think it's Victoria because the harp was changed from a winged female figure to a plain Gaelic type of harp when Elizabeth became queen. That's the only clue I can find.

I just tried to add the link where I found it but it won't embed for some reason, but if you look in 'Royal Coats of Arms in England' in wiki it shows all the changes.


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## highcannons (Dec 7, 2011)

The Royal Warrant for Rowntree was awarded between 1899 to 1910. So either right at the end Queen Victoria's reign or during Edward VII's. My guess is Edward VII for various reasons. 
You can find a long read on Rowntree history here, theres a pdf download if you look carefully...

http://books.google.co.uk/books/dow...intosh_C.pdf?id=SamJRN2xePMC&output=pdf&hl=en

awkward to find so heres the pdf

http://books.google.co.uk/books/dow...intosh_C.pdf?id=SamJRN2xePMC&output=pdf&hl=en


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## oldscrote (Dec 8, 2011)

The one you want must be on here somewhere

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ro...Aen5un0BA&sqi=2&ved=0CGAQsAQ&biw=1912&bih=946


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## Lightbuoy (Dec 8, 2011)

Taking an educated guess, I'd say one of the post Victoria Kings (pretty sure that this Crown represented our Present Queen's Father).

Nice sign by the way


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## Dirus_Strictus (Dec 8, 2011)

Lightbuoy said:


> Taking an educated guess, I'd say one of the post Victoria Kings (pretty sure that this Crown represented our Present Queen's Father).



The information required to answer MD's question is all there on the actual enameled sign! As 'Makers to H M Queen' is clearly stated, the Monarch in question is clearly a Queen. The item being advertised is described as 'Rowntree's Pastilles' which were renamed 'Fruit Pastilles' sometime in the 1920s, to distinguish them from Rowntree's Fruit Gums. Royal Warrants issued in the sole name of the spouses of our ruling Kings after Victoria, always seem to specify a christian name eg Queen Mary, thus the sign is most probably Victorian. There also seems to be a requirement for the full registered title of the firm, being granted the Warrant, to appear under the Royal Cypher post WW1 - much as it is today.


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## Goldie87 (Dec 8, 2011)

It is referring to Queen Mary, wife of George V.


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## krela (Dec 8, 2011)

Goldie87 said:


> It is referring to Queen Mary, wife of George V.



Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Queen_Mary_of_Teck_Standard.svg


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## highcannons (Dec 8, 2011)

Makes you feel good to know what a font of knowledge DP users are ennitt! Great stuff on a windy and wet week...


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## MD (Dec 8, 2011)

cheers for all the help folks


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