# St Joseph's Seminary, Upholland, Lancs - Jan 2009



## CHEWY

St Joseph's Seminary, Upholland, Lancashire



St Joseph's College was founded in 1880 by Bishop Bernard O'Reilly to be the Seminary serving the North West of England. The college was formally opened in 1883 and was situated in Walthew Park, Upholland, the geographic centre of the Diocese of Liverpool.

The first Junior Seminary of the Diocese was founded at St Edward's College in 1842 as a Catholic 'classical and commercial school' under the direction of the secular clergy and was established in Domingo House, a mansion in Everton. Its President for the next forty years was to be Monsignor Provost John Henry Fisher. When the Junior Seminarians moved to St Joseph's the school was taken over by the Christian Brothers (who also ran St John Rigby College in nearby Orrell) and continues to this day and now serves as the Liverpool Cathedral Choir School. In recognition of the heritage owed to St Edward's College one of the two chapels at Upholland was consecrated as the St Edward the Confessor Chapel.

Along with Ushaw College, the other main seminary in the north of England, candidates for the priesthood studied and were ordained at the college. Up until the second Vatican Council boys as young as 11 years of age entered the Junior Seminary before progressing to the senior Seminary at 18. In 1972 following the changes of Vatican 2 the two junior seminaries of St Joseph's and Ushaw merged at Upholland, and in 1975, with declining numbers of men from Ireland offering themselves for the (now) Archdiocese of Liverpool the Senior seminary moved to Ushaw. St Joseph's continued to offer boarding school education for boys considering a vocation until 1987. Up to 1991, the building housed a small group of students who were still interested in a vocation to the priesthood, but rather than being schooled within the premises, they attended St. John Rigby College, Orrell.

Following the end of the seminary training and boarding education St Joseph's became home to the Northern Institute and was used as a retreat and conference centre for the Archdiocese under the leadership of Msgr John Devine.

The election of Archbishop Patrick Kelly saw the controversial decision to close St Joseph's altogether and the property was sold to Anglo International who instructed AEW Architects for the conversion of the Grade 2 listed RC Seminary to 92 apartments, with 220 new build enabling units. The major controversies of the decision were the ongoing financial viability of St Joseph's (it had just started to make a small surplus under Devine's management) and the sale and disposal of the art and artefacts in the college, much of which had been donated by various parishes and people of the Archdiocese who were not offered their donations back.



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The Letter Of Closure​


Archbishop's House

Lowood Carnatic Road
Mossley Hill,
Liverpool
L18 8BY​
My dear People,​
I know of only one way to begin this letter, and that is by telling you directly that, together with the Trustees of the Archdiocese, I have decided - and the decision will take effect from November 30 - that we should no longer continue to use the buildings at St Joseph's College, Upholland. My words are chosen carefully: I say that 'we should not'- not that 'we cannot' - continue to use them. In fact it would not be impossible to finance their continued use: if we were prepared to set aside many other diocesan developments and activities, the money could certainly be found. However, I am convinced that that is a path I should not follow.

For several years now one attempt after another has been made to find a way to maintain and develop the buildings, without detriment to other aspects of life within the Archdiocese; but, despite huge efforts, we have got no where. At the same time, careful note has been taken of the actual use made of the buildings by the Archdiocese, and we have found that, given their size and the amount of work and money expended on them, the usage has been very small. Moreover, it is clear that alternative venues for more or less all current activities can be found elsewhere. Indeed, there is a strong argument that it would be to our advantage to use other venues, which would, for example, provide greater ease of access for those with special needs and would be more readily accessible to those who must rely upon public transport.

I need hardly tell you that this has been a most difficult decision to make. I will long remember the last time I heard Archbishop Worlock speak at Upholland. He made two points very clearly: first of all, that he would not be looking to the parishes to find any more resources to maintain the buildings: but, secondly, that he was hopeful that other avenues were opening to provide the necessary funding. As I walked through the building on that day, I saw how little of the vast space was in use: the task being faced was enormous. Sadly, his hope about those new avenues, despite every effort, has not been fulfilled.

Of course my difficulty has been the greater because, as I am only too well aware, Upholland has not been part of my life as it has been part of the life of so many others. However, I return to that crucial word 'should', which I used at the beginning of this letter. Today is Home Mission Sunday and with it comes the challenge that can never be ignored: we are all called to the task of spreading the gospel, of making disciples here at home. That in turn means that I am not free to use the Archdiocese's resources in any way I please. I may use them only in the way that will most effectively initiate and develop enterprises which strengthen us all as disciples and heralds of the Lord. The special collection today supports the work of the Catholic Missionary Society, and it's helpful to recall how this Society, so important in the eyes of Cardinal Heenan, has so often and so effectively changed to respond to new situations in which the gospel in its fullness must be preached. I believe that at this time the Archdiocese is summoned to change for the sake of the gospel

May I commend to your grateful prayers all those, especially Monsignor John Devine, who have worked so hard to retain the use, and exploit the potential, of the Upholland Buildings. We thank God for the blessings that those buildings have brought the Archdiocese in the past. But now it is by change, in response to the 'signs of the times', that we can be assured that we shall receive his blessings still.



Yours devotedly in Christ,

Patrick Kelly

Archbishop of Liverpool



_______________________________________________




The Pics






















































































































































































Old Photograph Of The Chapel From The 1930's








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## Foxylady

I really love this site...one of the few that others have been to that I'd like to see for myself.
You've captured some gorgeous images there, Chewy. Many of which I haven't seen before. Love the little still-life collections...china dogs, hurricane lamp, bottle, etc. 
Very nice work.


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## CHEWY

Thanks Foxy 

Sure is a must see if you get chance.
i got split up from a friend, and spent 2hours wandering around on my own 
i had to collect some of the ornaments from floor, and position them for shots.
i could easily spend another full day or 5 here again


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## chelle

*Seriously good stuff.*

Not much impresses me these days,but this report has.The shot with the crutch leaning against the bed is mint as is the rest to be honest.Nice one Chewy and well done.

Stu


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## CHEWY

Thanks Stu 

the ward shot was another i set the props up for.
not sure if it was the ginourmous pile of pigeon crap and rotting pigeons, but that room smelt of fresh sick 
so many goodies left to make a good pic up with left all over.
(i put the little table in pic5 in the corridor, it was in a little room) 
just a vase with some artificial flowers within would've finished it off nicely


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## Urban-Warrior

What an amazing site.. in perfect condition and free from pikeys damage.. this ones deffo on my list for this year now


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## sallybear

This whole thread is amazing, strike that, this whole forum is amazing. The place visited here has a lot of history, a lot of it not too positive, I believe it was the site of much abuse and that may be the real reason it was closed in the end.

As for it's history, it is somewhere my father almost ended up, pre-my mother. He was about to embark on a religious life and this was to be his seminary, but then he met my mum, quite an odd idea in my head.
Anyway although I have spent a lot of my life exploring, never before has it been done with any purpose, but I do think I would love to go here at some point this year.

Of course being a new member and not having access to PM's I hope someone might look up my email address in my profile and, lend a hand so to speak ;-)


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## holymole

Amazing shots Chewy - out of interest (and because I'm just starting to get into it) are any of these shots HDR to give the extra vivid feel - I know this question probably should be in the photography thread but I don't know how to link it to this thread from there so sorry in advance.....


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## CHEWY

Thanks guys 

the only damge is from water Jonas.
a couple of floors are a bit dodgy, but that's only a very small percentage..
just hope it gets sorted sometime soon before any real damage occurs. 

________________________________________

great story about your father nearly ending up here Sallybear 
as i walked round, i imagined what it was like when in use..
reminded me of somewhere you'd go with the school on one of them study weeks away 

be interested as in to why it did eventually close. 


________________________________________

Hi Holymole 

none of these are HDR, although some may look like they are..
i use a little trick using Paint Shop Pro Photo X2 (any Paint Shop should be the same really).

i use "Clarify" set to maximum (20).
this gives it some nice effects.

i then boost up the colours using "backlighting" option.

this now gives you a bright colourful image, so i bring it down with the "brightness".

i may finish it using the "edge" option to sharpen parts.


the chapel shots, ward and the one above it with the picture in were all done using the above technique


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## Foxylady

CHEWY said:


> ...none of these are HDR, although some may look like they are..
> i use a little trick using Paint Shop Pro Photo X2 (any Paint Shop should be the same really)...



Ah, that's really useful to know...I did wonder!  
I'm just getting into using some techniques with PaintShopPro myself, born out of desperation whilst prepping old work for my website. The photos were very poor quality and I can't get them again as the places have since been demolished, so I've been playing around with colour levels and saturation, brightness, contrast, etc. I'm getting some excellent results and even managing to salvage some that I thought were totally unusable, with the added bonus of interesting effects. Big fan of PSP now!


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## CHEWY

Great stuff Foxy 

i have Photoshop CS2 too, but never use it.
Backlighting, Clarify, Edge, One Step Noise Removal, Brightness/Contrast and Hue/Saturation is all i use mostly. 

Edge is handy to rescue something slightly out of focus.
Hue/Saturation to drop the colour ( Hue & Lightness set to 0, Saturation set to -75ish ).
One Step Noise Removal to smooth out noisy/grainy pics (handy after Clarify/Edge that leaves them looking bitty).
Backlighting to boost colour.


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## Dr.Doo

impressive report and pictures mate..great work :yes:


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## Urban Shadow

Nice set of pics and report there dude


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## carol smart

This has got to be one of the most amazing building i have seen a i along long time ....it should have never been closed but opened upto the public and then everyone could then feast on the amazing arcitecture what a waste


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## ccsharry

fantastic photos there dude!!


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## sallybear

CHEWY said:


> be interested as in to why it did eventually close.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is easy to do some searching if you want more details but there was massive abuse here and it was a bit of a thorn in the churches side really, couldn't have remained open if they wanted it to, according to my dad.
> 
> Kenny Everett and Johnny Vegas were both St Josephs boys!!
Click to expand...


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## Ferret

Great report and WOW!!! some absolutely stunning pictures there


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## pindar

sallybear said:


> CHEWY said:
> 
> 
> 
> be interested as in to why it did eventually close.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is easy to do some searching if you want more details but there was massive abuse here and it was a bit of a thorn in the churches side really, couldn't have remained open if they wanted it to, according to my dad.
> 
> Kenny Everett and Johnny Vegas were both St Josephs boys!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was in the same year & intake as Mike Pennington (AKA Johnny Vegas) and in one of the other threads with photos from St Joseph's I've put some comments with some background to the photos here:
> http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/showthread.php?t=5261&page=2
> 
> The place closed in 2 stages really. It was the minor (13/14 year old students) and major seminary for the diocese of Liverpool until about 1972 when the major (i.e. adult) seminarians were transferred to Ushaw College. It was still a junior seminary until 1987 and was a house of formation for young men aged between 13 and 18 who were exploring a vocation to the priesthood. Those that continued went up to Ushaw College. Its decline came about because of the fall in vocations. In the years up until about 1960 there was still an influx of Irish families to Liverpool where it would be common for one of the boys in the family to go on to become a priest, often going abroad or joining a missionary order after ordination. When this family tradition started to die out and immigrants came from places other than Ireland the seminary only trained those priests destined for the diocese itself, which as a number was never much greater than 10-15 a year at its height. It simply became too expensive to run both a junior house of formation and senior seminary. When the number of boys entering "juniors" every year fell to single figures it wasn't cost effective to continue doing that, and in any case candidates for ordination were now normally expected to be university educated first before going to a seminary rather than the seminary providing that level of education itsel, so there simply wasn't the need to maintain it.
> 
> ArchBp Warlock kept the place going as the Northern Institute, a training centre for priests and a conference centre. The institiute itself was self-sufficient and met its running costs, even turning a small profit under Monsignor John Devine, but the costs of maintaining the building started to cripple the diocese and so it sold the site for development.
> 
> I want to refute one thing though. Certainly in my time there there was NEVER any hint of abuse. There have been rumours but they are just that. To put it simply, if there had been any truth in the rumours we would have known. I can't speak for everyone of every generation, but you won't find any substantiated claims of the type and scale of abuse associated with Ireland or the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## kittykat

Stunning! How amazing! These are just gorgeous!


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## CHEWY

Thanks People 

great info Pindar..
good to get the story from someone who was there.
did i read right somewhere that Richard Ashcroft & some from Prefab Sprout was at St Joseph's too 

shame it's ended as a college now 
hope some good comes of it soon before it gets ruined even more by the water.


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## bachaus

Great shot of the wine glass.....have to ask if it was staged?

Also deep interest in the Milners safe.....

Cool shots.


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## Robster

v cool Chewy.

I lived in Skelmersdale for a little while (don't hold it against me!!  ) and as you know Upholland is just a few mins away, a great fish and chip shop there if i remember rightly!!

Pity I didn't track this place down. Luckily you and others did!!

Cheers

Robster


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## CHEWY

Thanks both 

the wine glass just got moved to get the window in too.
the stuff in it was solidified original wine, now with the consistency of tar 

i probably would've tried the chippy if i knew about it Rob


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## Robster

CHEWY said:


> Thanks both
> 
> the wine glass just got moved to get the window in too.
> the stuff in it was solidified original wine, now with the consistency of tar
> 
> i probably would've tried the chippy if i knew about it Rob



lol def mate. It was worth it. I liked Upholland a lot. Proper Lancashire..well to a southern wooly back like me


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## pindar

Robster said:


> v cool Chewy.
> 
> I lived in Skelmersdale for a little while (don't hold it against me!!  ) and as you know Upholland is just a few mins away, a great fish and chip shop there if i remember rightly!!
> 
> Pity I didn't track this place down. Luckily you and others did!!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Robster




You mean Taste of the Sea just opposite the pub on the corner of Beacon Road?  Right proper chippy that was.

The good thing about the location of the college was the number of pubs along the Leed Liverpool Canal that ran just behind the golf course.

Has anyone that has been up there recently seen if the course is still there or has it been built on?

Some photos that would be worth trying to get if anyone else gets up there would include:

The "new" art and science block at the back of Higher Line by the rear entrance to the chapel

The sacristy along the chapel corridor and the big wooden doors into the sanctuary off the corridor

The Rector's House and the little graveyard near the back (though it may have been exhumed by now)

The refectories that are below the statues at the back of Higher Line

The arts theatre/gymn


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## Pincheck

top set of pictures mate


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## pete_c

Wow. Just wow.


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## lilli

pindar said:


> Some photos that would be worth trying to get if anyone else gets up there would include:
> 
> The "new" art and science block at the back of Higher Line by the rear entrance to the chapel
> 
> The Rector's House and the little graveyard near the back (though it may have been exhumed by now)
> 
> 
> 
> The graveyard is still there, suprisingly it looked quite empty, I expected their to be more graves tbh
> 
> I have been into the add on box art and science block but tbh they were stripped out and just looked like old boring classrooms!
Click to expand...


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## Digitographer

Absolutely stunning collection of photographs..


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## CHEWY

Thankies All 

not sure if it's still doable, but definatley worth a try.
i didn't get around it all..
would love to go back and see the bits i missed.


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## Gangeox

I really do like this place and you've done some great work there Chewy  (and not a pair of waders in sight  )


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