filming police (security etc..)

[ricasso]

Dont know if this has been posted on DP before, Ive not been on here for a while, but I found it interesting..see what you think http://crimebodge.com/your-rights-to-record-the-police-without-their-say-so/ Im sure it would be equally applicable to over zealous security etc..

 

[smiler]

Is it ok to print this off? handy to have in the camera bag, Thanks

 

[ricasso]

Go for it mate! its something someone forwarded to me, (not in relation to Urbex..) I just thought it might be relevant..I cant vouch for the accuracy of the info but id like to think its pukka!!

 

[krela]

The law is really very simple; It's 100% lawful to take photos of the police at any time, and you 100% don't ever have to show them what's on your camera unless they have a warrant to seize it.

 

[MrDan]

As Krela has said, it's pretty straight forward and easy to understand.
http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice

 

[leftorium]

/delurk

it's a bit more complicated on private property though isn't it?

you have the right to film in or from a public place or from your own property or where permission is granted on private property.

you can film the police performing their duties anywhere.

security could however, enforce the landowners ban on photography if you are on private property.

security have no right however to look at your photos, they would have to call the police who would then have to be suspicious that you were planning an act of terrorism, in which case they could ask to look at your photos. (if it's gone this far and you aren't a terrorist it's probably best to say yes at this point)

the police could then arrest you and seize the camera, if they felt the contents could be used by YOU in planning a terrorist act. but they have to arrest you and that would expose them to a wrongful arrest case

No one can delete the photos or compel you to do so without a court order

Things are a bit different on MOD land, apart from the criminal trespass element, if the site is subject to the Official secrets act there's no burden to prove YOU could use the pictures to plan a terrorist act, only that someone may reasonably be able to.

finally the MOD are also trying to get a law enacted that would ban photography across all MOD land, making that a criminal offence with sanctions similar to criminal trespass

 

[wirelessmast]

Bear in mind also, that although you can record the police, any such recordings are considered to be evidence. You can therefore take no 'pecuniary' interest in them. What that means is that you cannot use them for anything other than legal evidence in court. If you distribute the recordings, or use them in any other way, then you can be asked either not to, or for remuneration, by those persons in the image. This is, however, a bit of a grey area, which is exactly why the press get away with it, because its usually too much hassle and expense for a private person (even a very rich one!) to take the press to court over it. Besides, if you distribute the images, ie youtube them or whatever, and then wish to use them as evidence against the police, you may find the court unwilling to accept them.

I myself have had press images showing me whilst at work pulled for 'legal' reasons!

 

[chazman]

hello everyone.pretty sure its common knowledge what i do.having done gov,mod,and even shopping malls regarding anti-terror threats,all i can say is that most places have differing so called rules,and not always lawfully correct either! im afraid over the years most establishments have become increasingly paranoid. thats about all i can say without giving away my opinion on what i think most of the sec business has come to nowadays.

 

[Derelict-UK]

What I would suggest (being a press photographer that has photographed many many crime scenes) is be polite and friendly to officers.

Don't pull out a printed form of the law, it will only mean the officer will get pissed off. Talk to them like you would your friend, it's really not that hard.

If the officer doesn't know the law properly (say they are new to the job with not as much experience), ask them to confirm it with a higher ranking officer who will tell them it is okay to allow you to film/photograph. Then they have learned for the next photographer they meet.

I freely allow police officers to view my images, I have nothing to hide, as soon as you become cagey with your images, they may suspect something.

Make 'friends' with officers as you never know if you are going to meet them in a different situation, if you make a bad impression on them the first time round, I'd be surprised if the second time would go any easier.

Security on the other hand, if they attempt to seize the camera, call the police asap and do them for theft. If they force you to delete an image, then call the police and you can do them for criminal damage.

 

[UrbanX]

I LOVE showing security my photos, and explaining each one in great detail...
I can't normally get past about 10 before they get bored and leave...

 

[MrDan]

I second that UrbanX!
At the old Dairy, our rasta security guard exclaimed "Bumbaclart!" When he saw our photos. The ones I've encountered have been quietly interested.

Also fully agree with Derelict UK. Know your rights without being a prat about it. The police I've had personal dealings with (not just through exploring) have all been friendly enough when they realise I'm calm, I cooperate and have nothing to hide.

 

[krela]

Bear in mind also, that although you can record the police, any such recordings are considered to be evidence. You can therefore take no 'pecuniary' interest in them. What that means is that you cannot use them for anything other than legal evidence in court. If you distribute the recordings, or use them in any other way, then you can be asked either not to, or for remuneration, by those persons in the image. This is, however, a bit of a grey area, which is exactly why the press get away with it, because its usually too much hassle and expense for a private person (even a very rich one!) to take the press to court over it. Besides, if you distribute the images, ie youtube them or whatever, and then wish to use them as evidence against the police, you may find the court unwilling to accept them.

I myself have had press images showing me whilst at work pulled for 'legal' reasons!

Sorry but this is utter rubbish, you can use photos of police for whatever you want, whenever you want. They *may* be seized as evidence or pulled if they may prejudice a court case just like anything else assuming they show a crime in progress (as is the case with any photo actually) but they are not automatically evidence, nor can the police ask for remuneration if you use them. No idea where you got this misinformation from. As I said above the law is very clear on the subject, there is no grey area.

The only exception to this is since the Counter Terrorism Act (2008) it's illegal to take a photo of a police officer that may be used to aid a person in committing a terrorist act, and for that matter it's illegal to take any photo that may be useful to aid a person in committing a terrorist act. Suitably vague as with all contemporary legislation made since 2001 so it's almost impossible to define what this means in practice and it's difficult to see how this would be relevant unless you're in London and acting like a ****. However it is no longer legal to stop and search someone under these grounds just to get them out of the way. So if an officer tries to tell you they need to see your photos under this act, they no longer have the right and would need to have reasonable suspicion to arrest you to be able to do anything which means they need to demonstrate probably cause.

You can take photos of anything and anyone from PUBLIC land (i.e. the pavement). However you have no such right to take photos on private land, and if the landowner or their agent (security) asks you to stop then legally you should. If you don't then it's possible (although unbelievably unlikely) that you could be considered to be committing aggravated trespass (although the prosecution would have to demonstrate malicious intent). However even in this situation landowners or their agents still don't have the right to seize your equipment, look at your photos or wipe your photos, and if they try to they are themselves committing an offence as Derelict-UK mentioned above.

This is the actual law,

 

[smiler]

i wish i never asked

 

[Pilot]

It is becoming increasingly important to know our rights - especially as more and more powers are granted to the Police. The day it becomes unlawful to record HM Police is the day that we need to be very worried. Video away, ladies & gents. (And that deletion of Sect. 44 of tha Anti Terrorism Act is important.)

 

[Dirus_Strictus]

Sadly the title of the web site highlighted by Ricasso tells all in my opinion and waving a copy in the face of any Officer is likely to increase any tension, rather than reduce same. Derelict-UK's common sense approach is all that is needed, however, if you start quoting the Law to all and sundry make sure you know and fully understand all the facts. Act like a F****** Prat and you will be treated as one. Pilot is correct in stating one should know one's rights, but make sure you have studied and understood the relevant Law and Regulations. Going off half cocked in front off any Authority is the surest way of really pissing that person or persons off - in that situation you deserve any tirade that comes your way.

 

[krela]

Sadly the title of the web site highlighted by Ricasso tells all in my opinion and waving a copy in the face of any Officer is likely to increase any tension, rather than reduce same. Derelict-UK's common sense approach is all that is needed, however, if you start quoting the Law to all and sundry make sure you know and fully understand all the facts. Act like a F****** Prat and you will be treated as one.

Not all officers like a friendly chat, some of them (quite a lot unfortunately) like to throw their weight around, and then knowing the law certainly helps... If that requires a bit of paper and being a f****** prat then so be it. I have no problem increasing tension if that's what's required to assert my rights, just as I would with any other bully. I don't hold with the nothing to hide argument personally, I think it's a slippery slope that only perpetuates the problem. Each to their own though and I have no issue with that.

I do agree that being friendly is the first way to go, but it doesn't always work. Even so there is a difference between standing your ground and being assertive, and being an arrogant know it all dick. Don't be a dick.