Possible Cane Hill 1950s film

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Simon

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A friend recently sent me a piece from the Inside Out (BBC Midlands) programme. It was concerned with the forthcoming closure of Kingsway Hospital in Derby. A local historian told the history of the institution and outlined the future of the buildings. He was also filmed at the now remarkably clean-and-tidy St John’s at Bracebridge Heath (cleared for asbestos removal) whilst a researcher dug out some black and white footage of an asylum in the 1950s.

It was this archival footage that made me sit up. I suddenly released that it might be Cane Hill. So, I grabbed a few frames and studied them closely. Was it?

(Apologies for the subtitles. They were on the original recording).

ch1.jpg

The first parts of the archival film showed an overcrowded female dormitory. There are no clues here; it could be anywhere.

ch2.jpg

This was more interesting. The arches over the doorway and the circular skylight over the door on the left seemed familiar. But it certainly wasn't conclusive.

ch3.jpg

The next frames of the film showed an extremely overcrowded male dormitory. Again, there were no clues as to where this was shot.

ch4.jpg

Suddenly it all looked extremely familar. I got out the Cane Hil plans to figure this shot out. We were on the male side of the hospital as there's seveal men walking around. So the cameraman was probably on the first floor of Wren/Wesley shooting roughly south east across No. 4 Garden and just capturing the end of Vanbrugh/Vincent. But what of the shelter? I consulted the older hospital plans. And there it was - positioned exactly on the plan where it was shown in the film. I could even imagine the cameraman standing in the bay window of Wren/Wesley to get this shot.

ch5.jpg

Again, the male side of the hospital. But this shot is more difficult to place. It's either the southern flank of Wren/Wesley or the southern flank of Vanbrugh/Vincent.

ch6.jpg

We've now returned to the shot from Wren/Wesley and the cameraman has zoomed in on the path by the corner of Vanbrugh/Vincent.

ch7.jpg

An amazing piece of history. Consulting Howell's original plans for the hospital, which includes the walls and shelters, I believe this shot was taken from the public footpath, looking through the gate, past the shelter and the ward in the background is Hill/Harvard.

ch8.jpg

We were back inside the hospital. Now that I was convinced it was Cane Hill I was looking for additional clues. The cast iron pillar looked very much like the ones in Cane Hill.

ch9.jpg

The archival film finished with a slow pan across a crowded female dormitory. But the line of doors at the back were familar.

Is this Cane Hill?

All the best,
Simon
 
That is absolutely amazing to see! What is more, I can picture how most of those frames look now (or 4 months ago). Excellent stuff Simon. :mrgreen: I would say at the very least, SOME of it is Cane Hill
 
Last edited:
ch4.jpg

Suddenly it all looked extremely familar. I got out the Cane Hil plans to figure this shot out. We were on the male side of the hospital as there's seveal men walking around. So the cameraman was probably on the first floor of Wren/Wesley shooting roughly south east across No. 4 Garden and just capturing the end of Vanbrugh/Vincent. But what of the shelter? I consulted the older hospital plans. And there it was - positioned exactly on the plan where it was shown in the film. I could even imagine the cameraman standing in the bay window of Wren/Wesley to get this shot.

ch5.jpg

Again, the male side of the hospital. But this shot is more difficult to place. It's either the southern flank of Wren/Wesley or the southern flank of Vanbrugh/Vincent.

ch6.jpg

We've now returned to the shot from Wren/Wesley and the cameraman has zoomed in on the path by the corner of Vanbrugh/Vincent.

ch7.jpg

An amazing piece of history. Consulting Howell's original plans for the hospital, which includes the walls and shelters, I believe this shot was taken from the public footpath, looking through the gate, past the shelter and the ward in the background is Hill/Harvard.

I'm certain it's Cane Hill. Of the asylums designed by Howell, only two sites adopted a style reliably like this - both were extensions of to existing complexes at Brookwood and Cane Hill. These can be most easily differentiated from each other by the presence of keystones at first floor window level - the first exterior photos indicate their absence, as at Cane Hill.

I agree that the the first and third images, both at high level, appear to be looking towards the rear of Male ward F/Vincent-Vanbrugh although i believe the angle of shot indicates that the cameraman would have been filming from the Male G Dayroom (Zachary day room).

The ground level shot showing the path along the front of the bay windows could really be either block F or H (Van/Vin or Wren/Wes), but the positioning of joining pathways look more akin to the front of the F block when compared with the 1935 o/s plan.

I don't think the final exterior is of Hill/Harvard/Hogarth block or on the female side at all. Firstly, there is an absence of tile weatherproofing, which is likely to have already been in situ at this time (although i can't find the evidence to substantiate this as yet). Secondly, and perhaps more significantly, is to the left of the photo, between the gate pillar in the foreground and the ward block in the distance, is part of a tall projecting block. This appears to be the rear of the day room section of Male Block F (Van/Vin) making the block to the rear Male Block H (wren/wes). The gate therefore gives access between the airing courts either side of Block F. Taking the projecting block into account, the correlation of structures to the gate can therefore only be this position when compared to plan.

I couldn't hazard a guess at any interiors however, the quality is too poor or obscured and i really don't know Cane Hill interiors enough. Thanks for posting. Did they include any vintage footage of Kingsway on the program?

Pete
 
good work!!

thanks for sharing, wish I'd seen that! no idea of th title? was just hoping it would be on the film archives (internet based, some students can get to them with athens accounts).

ch7.jpg

this is my fav capture, makes the place look so used, and quite bright!
and with all th patients buzzing around the ouside and the blatent overcrowding inside, great to see, but it must have been hell to manage in there!
 
Certainly the exteriors look like the hill....I took these near where I think several of your pics appear to be....

Another angle near the last pic


Hope this helps..the airvents/bricks all look in the same place along with the soldierbrick arches over the windows..

Stu
 
I agree that the the first and third images, both at high level, appear to be looking towards the rear of Male ward F/Vincent-Vanbrugh although i believe the angle of shot indicates that the cameraman would have been filming from the Male G Dayroom (Zachary day room).

I've been using Howell's 1888 plans to try and determine where the shots were taken from. These were chosen as they clearly show the location of the airing court shelters, original walls and the gates.

ch4.jpg

The field of view in this shot neatly bisects the airing court shelter on the left and clearly shows the western side of Ward F's (Vin/Van) day room and some of the windows of the individual rooms next to it on the right. From this, and assuming the cameraman in the bay window of Ward H (Wren/Wes), I constructed the following:

v1.jpg

However, attempting to construct the same view with the cameraman in Ward G (Zac) doesn't quite work:

v2.jpg

Again, the we have to bisect the shelter on the left and attempt to view the back of Ward F's day room on the right. However, the sanitation tower is in the way and blocks the view. Therefore I believe the cameraman was in Ward H (Wren/Wes).

I don't think the final exterior is of Hill/Harvard/Hogarth block or on the female side at all. Firstly, there is an absence of tile weatherproofing, which is likely to have already been in situ at this time (although i can't find the evidence to substantiate this as yet).

This archival image form 1909 shows Ward H, the shelter and the gate I believe the cameraman was filming through:

post2.jpg

This view doesn't show the weatherproofing. Doesn't prove it wasn't there in 1950 (or whenever this film was shot) but shows the wards were originally built without weatherproofing and did without for at least 20 years.

ch7.jpg

Secondly, and perhaps more significantly, is to the left of the photo, between the gate pillar in the foreground and the ward block in the distance, is part of a tall projecting block. This appears to be the rear of the day room section of Male Block F (Van/Vin) making the block to the rear Male Block H (wren/wes). The gate therefore gives access between the airing courts either side of Block F. Taking the projecting block into account, the correlation of structures to the gate can therefore only be this position when compared to plan.

Again, I can't quite get this to work. But I've made an assumption at this point, that the cameraman didn't change his camera, so his field of view remained constant. So, using the same geometry I'd originally worked out for the first shot, I tried "framing" various airing court shelters through the gates to try and reproduce the shot:

Was this the shot you were suggesting?

v5.jpg

Again, there's a problem with the sanitation tower. The film shows large bay windows behind the right-hand-side of the shelter; definintely not a sanitation tower.


Then there was my suggestion of Ward H:

v3.jpg

Which doesn't quite work either but is better.


Or finally, to rule it out, the shelter on the other side of Ward H:

v4.jpg

Which definintely isn't the shot. So, I'm still not 100% happy with that view. It's Cane Hill... but where?

Did they include any vintage footage of Kingsway on the program

Unfortunately, no. All the footage shot at Kingsway was recent. The only archival parts were of Cane Hill.

All the best,
Simon
 

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