BBC news this morning

[Engineer]

Do you really think so?

I don't really consider the problem to be any worse than I remember it being in the 70s or 80s where vandalism and asset stripping was equally as bad if not worse, and the internet didn't even exist in a public form then.

Sure there are undoubtedly people in our midst who have less than admirable aims, its been proven to be so many times. However they will still exist and do what they do whether they're here or not, the only difference is they wouldn't be able to call themselves urban explorers they would just be simple thieves/vandals as they always have been.

If nothing else I think the advent of the internet and almost universal access to transport has been a double edged sword.
Bear in mind this is only the rambling of an old git who started his explorations in a different world, the 1950s.

 

[ricasso]

Do you really think so?

I don't really consider the problem to be any worse than I remember it being in the 70s or 80s where vandalism and asset stripping was equally as bad if not worse, and the internet didn't even exist in a public form then.

Sure there are undoubtedly people in our midst who have less than admirable aims, its been proven to be so many times. However they will still exist and do what they do whether they're here or not, the only difference is they wouldn't be able to call themselves urban explorers they would just be simple thieves/vandals as they always have been.

while i completly agree with you Krela I would say that even though WE know who these thieves/vandals are, when the general public see the vandalism on their tv screen while a reporter is talking about urban explorers (in particular) then that puts a name to the culprits, (in the publics eye).
much the same as has been mentioned before,bikers in leather jackets etc all became hells angels after bad press by the media, its just a bit worrying when probably 95% of people have never heard of urbex before, that suddenly its being linked to vandalisim,
im sure any old bikers that were riding in the 70s (like myself) are thinking "here we go again"!

 

[krela]

Back in Dover, the new partnership is struggling to find ways of deterring self-styled "urban explorers", who make a hobby out of defying padlocks and bars to gain access to places not open to the public.

Some of them merely do it to observe and take photos but an uncaring minority want to cause damage or remove a souvenir.

As I said before then, what they actually mean then is that they're struggling to find ways of deterring vandals and thieves.

 

[krela]

Actually I would say that the article is surprisingly accurate. There are a minority of self-styled urban explorers who do do it to create damage and streal things. It's an unfortunate case of 'if the cap fits'.

If you're that bothered about it I would suggest tackling those in the urban exploration community who do vandalise and steal rather than try and change the (correct) perceptions of the media.

 

[ricasso]

Actually I would say that the article is surprisingly accurate. There are a minority of self-styled urban explorers who do do it to create damage and streal things. It's an unfortunate case of 'if the cap fits'.

If you're that bothered about it I would suggest tackling those in the urban exploration community who do vandalise and steal rather than try and change the (correct) perceptions of the media.

sorry, point taken, if i do seem overly bothered its only because i care.

 

[krela]

sorry, point taken, if i do seem overly bothered its only because i care.

I completely agree, I care too. Why do you think there's a page about ethics and the law stickied at the top of every forum and a statement about the law in the footer of the site?

It's also worth remembering that any 'group' official or otherwise will always have its bad seeds and the media will invariably judge the group on the bad seeds and not the whole, it's the nature of the society we live in. That's why many of us here don't consider ourselves 'urban explorers' and are sympathetic both to the places we document/aim to learn about, and to 'the cause' as outlined in that news article.

 

[swanseamale47]

Good idea. I'll do the same. Mind, I don't blame you for not holding your breath mate. Certain leaked documents have shown directives from bosses to newsreaders to say things in a specific way or use specific words in order to create bias...not about this subject, but about the election reform campaign, which is even worse. Don't get me started! lol

Yep it's just the Beeb spouting the party line (watch how often global warming and obesity get mentioned)

 

[Seahorse]

Speaking of vandalised heritage sites, and without wishing to sound racist, I'm blaming the Russians for some of the more prominent grafitti at Torry Battery in Aberdeen.

Either that, or we have neds with elevated linguistic skills. Hmm, that's a ridiculous conclusion. Russians it is.

 

[MD]

once again its the actions of a small group that make everyone out to be wrong uns


Linky

 

[Derelict-UK]

once again its the actions of a small group that make everyone out to be wrong uns


Linky

A lot of the top players on 28days are bad for this kind of thing, I call them 'Posh Pikies'.

It's a shame that they have to use UE as cover for their thieving ways though, as said by MD, it brings the bad light on all of us who are there to enjoy sites. If you put the infamous Cardiff PDF together with Raddogs ebay account, you have enough evidence to warrant an investigation imo.

If the police were that bothered, it wouldn't be hard to view the places an explorer had been from their reports on the net and then link their ebay sales.

---

In regards to the Grand Shaft, it wouldn't take them more than 15 minutes to block the entrance people use to get in there, it's a joke. And if they locked the gate at the top of the stairs, no one would be able to get in anyway.

Simple measures make all the difference!

And the Fort is open to all the public, you don't have to climb anything to get in so how they can associate that graffiti with us lot is beyond me.

 

[Priority 7]

Spooky how a while back it was actually a BBC reporter who was filmed ripping up a chain fence to gain access to Severalls??
My it shocks me how it seems to be anything for a good story, no matter how tainted the teller. I have to agree with MD and others, while only being new to the UE I keep hearing about certain infamous UEr's who seem unable to keep their hands of trinkets. The few sites I have had the pleasure to visit have also still had some great items lying around that give the site its aura, I would never consider removing them.

 

[godzilla73]

A lot of the top players on 28days are bad for this kind of thing, I call them 'Posh Pikies'.

It's a shame that they have to use UE as cover for their thieving ways though, as said by MD, it brings the bad light on all of us who are there to enjoy sites. If you put the infamous Cardiff PDF together with Raddogs ebay account, you have enough evidence to warrant an investigation imo.

If the police were that bothered, it wouldn't be hard to view the places an explorer had been from their reports on the net and then link their ebay sales.

---

In regards to the Grand Shaft, it wouldn't take them more than 15 minutes to block the entrance people use to get in there, it's a joke. And if they locked the gate at the top of the stairs, no one would be able to get in anyway.

Simple measures make all the difference!

And the Fort is open to all the public, you don't have to climb anything to get in so how they can associate that graffiti with us lot is beyond me.

D-UK is absolutely right about the Dover stuff - English Heritage are as bad as any other government agency when it comes to being bothered about the bits that don't appeal to white middle class tourists. Most of the stuff in Dover is on open access land (South foreland, Citadel, Farthingloe, Drop Redoubt) and any damage or graffitti remains, generally, because the local council and other authorities are not discharging their responsibilities correctly, in terms of maintaning what are effectively publicly owned structures. The problem is that there isn't money to be made in HAA batteries and the like!
GDZ

 

[mimidaler]

i think the bbc are out of line on this one, the writer clearly didnt research properly. I truly beleive in 100 years time historians will be paying you all a lot for your photos as i think they are of massive important historical value, as well as the artistic value. The problem with our past is that we dont know what happened so learnign from mistakes and documenting for the future is really important. Aside from this it shows the shocking level of waste and decay left behind by military, hospitals etc. Vandalism is always going to occur where there is anything left to rot, regardless of an internet forum, but its quite clear that a bridge needs to be made between the owners of the larger sites and true urban explorers.

 

[Seahorse]

I truly beleive in 100 years time historians will be paying you all a lot for your photos

I should live so long. :biglaugh:

 

[V70]

Quality reporting as usual... full of factual statements and pats on the backs for the council officials who are doing their best to fight the losing battle against "our types"

I don't see myself as an "urban explorer" either though. I see myself as a guy who likes to take photos of old buildings and places, using entrances that are already available to anyone who spots them

 

[krela]

I would also suggest that a majority of "urban explorers" couldn't give a toss about the history, research or documentation. It's all about the buzz and kudos for many.

There's nothing wrong with that, but it makes it difficult to justify the hobby on those grounds if that's not why people do it.

 

[phill.d]

I would also suggest that a majority of "urban explorers" couldn't give a toss about the history, research or documentation. It's all about the buzz and kudos for many.

There's nothing wrong with that, but it makes it difficult to justify the hobby on those grounds if that's not why people do it.

You've hit the nail right on the head with that statement. U.E is a double edged sword. Documenting some of these places, and detailing the history online for posterity, not only for people interested in exploration, but for Joe public who wouldn't normally see them, can get a lot of stick from the so called 'L33T' exploration circle.

It's fine to post these locations locked away on 'certain' forums (not D.P) only available to the elite
(but they forget anyone can read U.E forums too)
But posting the stuff on sites like flickr gets blamed for encouraging other people to look around them. Not only explorers, but the thieves, and vandals. Most of these L33T explorers were themselves inspired by seeing these places on websites like flickr in the first place, It was ok for them too start U.E, but not others who come after them??

There's far too many contradictory rules and politics in U.E for me to class myself as an Urban explorer as well.
Just a guy with a camera who does it my own way lol.

Interesting points raised here, I'm sure people will be arguing the toss for many years to come

 

[ricasso]

erm, ive been out of the loop for a while, whats a 'L33T explorer'?

 

[krela]

erm, ive been out of the loop for a while, whats a 'L33T explorer'?

l33t is a derogatory term for people who consider themselves to be the "elite".

 

[ricasso]

ah, I see, thanks for that mate.