Cypriot Tomb - 300BC

[beetle70]

Well here is a story that not many people can tell. We were in Cyprus this year and went exploring in the hills and in true Indiana Jones style, we found an entrance to a tomb.

As a laugh my mate stuck his camera down a small cave entrance and took a photo - when he looked at it - there were the tunnels!

[/IMG]

As the women were shopping it was back to the villa and on with the jeans even though it was mid day and in the heatwave! We dropped down into cave - I just made it as I was scraping top and bottom and found 4 small tunnels

My mate went first

...... we went into a room that was 2 metres high by 5 metres long and about 3 metres wide

Looking about the foor we found umpteen bits of pottery and glass, most of which was broken but there in all its glory was one small spindle bottle in great condition

This is not my real face but I was holding this bottle which was put in the tomb when it was sealed up

This is my mate at the far end of the tomb

This was a small selection of what was on the floor

Anyway we took the small perfume bottle to the local museum and found out it dates back to 300BC and that they didnt know about the tomb we were in ....... Guess where we are going next year

 

[Priority 7]

No thats a great find bud top job

 

[nij4829]

Nice pics and looks like a great place.
I take it you put the perfume bottle back after getting it aged?

 

[beetle70]

cYPRIOT TOMB

The bottle went to the local museum and one of the security guards came down so we could show him where it was - there has been no excavation there in last 40 years plus -

take nothing but pictures and leave only footprints

 

[Derelict-UK]

An interesting find...

Nice pics and looks like a great place.
I take it you put the perfume bottle back after getting it aged?

I hope so, grave robbing is not a big look!

 

[beetle70]

We now have free access to the museum when we go back next year so must have done summit right :O)

I dont believe in taking stuff from where other people should be enjoying it hence its in the museum for all to see. All joking apart they think there will be much more in the tomb in the way of ivory and pottery so from now in its over to the experts....... just need to find a new one next year lol.

 

[Derelict-UK]

I still don't feel comfortable taking items from graves, even if it is from an archeology point of view.

 

[beetle70]

I know where your coming from but sooner or later someone will come along and take stuff for their own collection or for selling and that aint just right - I would rather see it saved for the future, hence the reason for taking the complete bottle to the museum.
Speaking to the security guard they have a big problem with people robbing these tombs - they use augers to identify voids then dig until the break in which I found really sad as they damage the tomb take what they want and trash the rest - this one will hopefully remain in tack for a long time to come. When we went for walks in the morning we found hundreds of small holes where locals had been up at night with metal detectors looking for coins - caught taking anything from a tomb or using a metal detector carries instant imprisonment to try and stop it.

 

[Derelict-UK]

The way you quoted (in large lettering)...

take nothing but pictures and leave only footprints

Kind of contradicts what you did though doesn't it.


What you are saying is the phrase 'take nothing but pictures and leave only footprints' is not relevant, you are really saying,

'take nothing but maybe some stuff that even though is not yours, you think might be accepted by a museum oh and take some pictures and leave only footprints'

As soon as you take something without permission you are breaking the criminal law.

(although I am not familiar with Cypriot law, but to quote yourself,

- caught taking anything from a tomb or using a metal detector carries instant imprisonment

)

And what happens if the museum did not except it? would you have returned it or kept it?


Im going to leave it here, but as soon as you cross the line of taking an object from a premises (without the owners/families permission), then you have gone from a civil offence of trespass to a criminal offence of theft (however innocent your reasons are for doing it).

Urban exploration is just that, exploring.


rant over

 

[krela]

The way you quoted (in large lettering)...



Kind of contradicts what you did though doesn't it.


What you are saying is the phrase 'take nothing but pictures and leave only footprints' is not relevant, you are really saying,

'take nothing but maybe some stuff that even though is not yours, you think might be accepted by a museum oh and take some pictures and leave only footprints'

As soon as you take something without permission you are breaking the criminal law.

(although I am not familiar with Cypriot law, but to quote yourself,

)

And what happens if the museum did not except it? would you have returned it or kept it?


Im going to leave it here, but as soon as you cross the line of taking an object from a premises (without the owners/families permission), then you have gone from a civil offence of trespass to a criminal offence of theft (however innocent your reasons are for doing it).

Urban exploration is just that, exploring.


rant over

Give it a rest, you appear to be the only one outraged by this which probably says something.

 

[Foxylady]

Speaking to the security guard they have a big problem with people robbing these tombs...

It's a real problem with a lot of ancient sites, especially in Egypt where there've been grave robbers since ancient times. It's big business in the antiquities world.

 

[RichardH]

Give it a rest, you appear to be the only one outraged by this which probably says something.

I find myself very conflicted over this. I'm not outraged, but I am troubled.

At what point does the dictum "take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints" (for breaking which, people have rightly been excoriated on this forum and elsewhere), become "take nothing but photographs - unless you're taking something to a museum"?

There's a museum of social history in Leicester, which has in the past had a display of "one hundred years of kitchens", which portrayed in a series of tableaux the goings-on in kitchens from the Victorian era through to the 1970's. It was very interesting (I'm sad like that). They would probably have been interested in receiving examples of kitchenware from any of the periods covered by the display, but if someone had said on here, for example, that they had taken some things from Potters Manor to the museum, I wonder what the reaction would have been.

I don't ascribe any ill intent to beetle70 whatsoever, and from the sound of it the consequences of his actions have been only positive. Yet, I can't come up with a way of saying "it's ok to take things in this instance" which doesn't sound like magical thinking with a heavy dose of post hoc justification. It's probably a professional curse.

 

[krela]

There is a difference between taking things for personal gain and attempting to preserve things for historical posterity where they may otherwise be destroyed or are at risk. There is also a large difference between sites that are 'owned' by somebody making their contents somebodies property, and sites such as the one in question in this thread.

It is and has to be personal choice and I see no value in judging somebody else for their actions in cases like these.

 

[Seahorse]

In the extremely unlikely event that anything like this should be found in the UK, it's probably best to leave stuff in situ, THEN report to a local museum.

They can then coordinate with archeological groups who will be extremely happy to be able to document things in their proper places.

I was quad biking a few years ago through a river, and came across an old midden near a derelict house, where it had started to crumble down the river bank. Tempting as it was to pick through some extremely interesting artifacts, I was later told that it would have ruined the timeline, as things would not have been where they should have been. Making dating somewhat difficult, if not impossible.

 

[Mad Larkin]

There is a difference between taking things for personal gain and attempting to preserve things for historical posterity

yes. nothing was stolen so why nit pick?

awesome site find boys, that's got to be the stuff urbexers (and archaeologists) dreams are made of

 

[mexico75]

Nice find guys and good work with the bottle, you brought an item of national historic importance to the attention of the relevant people, its not like you put it on ebay

 

[beetle70]

Guys - just to confirm. We stumbled on the tomb.... we entered and found the stuff on the ground and did not do any digging or disturbing of the area. After we went to the museum the cursator told us that from the photos it had been looted at some point and the small burial chambers had been dug at certain areas for the goodies (gold, coins, etc) but the tomb was not on their known list dating back 40 years or so.
We had a mega debate in the chamber while we were there...... did we have the right to take the pot..... should we tell the museum about the tomb...... should we put the pot down and leave.... etc

In the end we thought that since the item was not damaged it should go to the museum in case the next persons entering were not as interested in passing on the item or damaged it when going in - bearing in mind it is 2300 years old!

The curator was extremely interested in getting the details and as it had came from inside a tomb it did not affect the timeline for dating, but he was quick to make the point anything outside on the ground should not be moved for the reasons mentioned earlier.

I am not a tomb raider, grave robber or anything else in that vein just thought I would share an interesting story with you and the fact that we have passed on information to the archeologists to allow them to do the ferreting about

The post has generated a lot of debate but I have no qualms that we did the right thing to preserve a piece of history and taking photos of holding a really old item is not a crime.

Derelict-UK should be more careful about stating law when he obviously hasnt a clue. The Cypriot lw staes any finds should be handed in within 6 months with details of where it was found - we had it with them within 1 hour! No Civil or Criminal Offence was commited - better check out his next post to see if he is on private property or causing criminal damage by breaking and entering

Anyway I am glad some of you have appreciated the post and the others.... well all I will say os I can sleep at nights!

 

[Derelict-UK]

I did not say I knew cypriot law, I was referring to what you had previously said.

Most UE is done on private property. Although I will never B&E (just enter).

Anyway, we have all learnt a bit more about Cypriot law so I suppose that is a plus point.

 

[Neosea]

Thanks Beetle this place looks great, I wish I had stumbled on this!!



Well done also for doing the right thing

 

[lost]

Looks quite interesting, where in Cyprus is it roughly?