Defence of Britain stuff

[Jimthething]

I spend quite a bit of time on Google Earth looking for bomb craters in the fields around where I live. The bombs were usually dropped in 'sticks' of 4 or 5 and if dropped onto farmland leave a very neat line of equally-spaced craters. Even on land that has been farmed for 70 years since the war evidence of these craters is still quite obvious - particularly in East Yorkshire where we have a few feet of clay over chalk or sand/gravel.
Anyway I was looking on GE today and found a very clear row of 4 or 5 crop marks running east to west near a farm between Humbleton and Garton. With Cptpies' excellent DOB overlay I found an AA searchlight on the coast just to the east of the location and the site of an anti-aircraft battery just to the south. You can almost imagine the conversation in the German aircraft... "uh oh, that searchlight has found us" and then a few seconds later "Oh s**t, anti-aircraft fire! Sod this for a game of soldiers, drop the bombs now and let's go home!"
Lmao

Have a look at this - link to a map plotting the location of bombs dropped on Hull during 1940-41...

http://www.rhaywood.karoo.net/bombmap.htm

 

[Seahorse]

I've done much the same thing myself. Only to find on closer inspection that some of the "craters" have turned out to be where Mr Farmer has dumped a bale of hay or 2, and the depression has actually been caused by cattle stomping the ground to mush as they feed.

Not all of them though. And as you say, interesting to imagine the reasons for dumping their bombs miles away from obvious targets.

 

[night crawler]

Can't take them home might explode on landing or you get a bollocking for not dropping them. Sometimes they dumped them to lighten the plane to get away from the fighters chaseing them. Just read a book called 10 fighter boys which was written in the war, told you in that what happened.

 

[Jimthething]

I reckon a lot of them would just want to get rid of the bombs at the first opportunity. As you say, Night Crawler, there's no way they would fly back home with any left. I live near Hull and it's reckoned we got a lot of the bombs destined for Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool as well simply because this is the first bit of England they reached after crossing the North Sea and Hull was the first city (a legitimate target itself because of the docks). Unless you had a very strong sense of duty to the fatherland, why would you fly across 100 miles of hostile AA fire to bomb Liverpool and then 100 miles back again when you can just drop them on Hull and bugger off home? 15 mins over enemy territory, job done!
The countryside around here seems to have been littered with bombing decoys as well looking at DOB so a lot of the crews probably inadvertently bombed the local fields in good conscience.

 

[Foxylady]

As you say, Night Crawler, there's no way they would fly back home with any left. I live near Hull and it's reckoned we got a lot of the bombs destined for Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool...

The only time my town of Seaton was hit was after the bombers had been up to Exeter, Bristol etc, and were on their way home. IIRC one of the reasons was that they only just had enough fuel to get them back to Germany without the payload, so they had to drop them before returning.
Fascinating stuff.

 

[Jimthething]

I've heard a few similar stories, Foxlady. The only thing that has always puzzled me is why they wouldn't just let the lot go over the target. I'm not even sure if they would have the facility to drop a part load of bombs or if they would have to drop them all in one go.
The only reason I could imagine they would drop the payload in sections is so that the aerodynamics of the plane wouldn't be upset too much by letting go of everything at once. I imagine that could put a lot of stress on the airframe.
I might do some rooting around on wikipedia and see if I can find an answer!

 

[Seahorse]

You have to wonder how many unexploded ordnance is still lying around waiting to be uncovered. Just in August, there was a bomb discovered during work to extend the runway at Dyce in Aberdeen.

Mind you, when I was stationed in Gutersloh many moons ago, it seemed finding bombs around the airfield was becoming a bit of a hobby. Although those were dropped by our lot. As the old joke goes, auld fella to young student:

"When I was your age, we didn't go backpacking around Europe."

"Why's that Grandad?"

"We were too busy bombing the **** out of it."

 

[oldscrote]

I've heard a few similar stories, Foxlady. The only thing that has always puzzled me is why they wouldn't just let the lot go over the target. I'm not even sure if they would have the facility to drop a part load of bombs or if they would have to drop them all in one go.
The only reason I could imagine they would drop the payload in sections is so that the aerodynamics of the plane wouldn't be upset too much by letting go of everything at once. I imagine that could put a lot of stress on the airframe.
I might do some rooting around on wikipedia and see if I can find an answer!

The German system of bomb aiming worked on a timed release system once you pressed the tit the load went out at a pre ordained timing and order{the bomb load was normally a mixed bag of HE and incendiaries plus the odd special designed to cause maximum chaos}I remember as a lad in the 50s my dad showing me quite a few lines of bomb craters scattered across the fields of Kent,now I assume all filled in and long forgotten.That's a good little web site you have there Jim thanks for the link.

 

[night crawler]

You have to wonder how many unexploded ordnance is still lying around waiting to be uncovered. Just in August, there was a bomb discovered during work to extend the runway at Dyce in Aberdeen."

There is a roumor that there are two unexploded 400lb bombs in a field near where I live, no one has set them off yet though.

 

[alex76]

There is a roumor that there are two unexploded 400lb bombs in a field near where I live, no one has set them off yet though.

if you find them dont go tapping them with an hammer though haha

 

[wirelessmast]

The majority of crews would have prerssed on to their primary target, as the conseqienses to them had they not done were severe. The Nazis as well as the Soviets sent 'political' officers on raids to ensure the crews followed orders. Flight plans would have tried to avoid major defended places enroute that were not the primary. That said, and has has been pointed out, any bombs left for any reason would be jettisoned as soon as possible as this allowed a small increase in speed and altitude, allowing the crew to GTFO quicker! It also reduced fuel consumption, giving a bit of an extra margin. Generally, jettisoned ordnance was dropped on countryside, as no crew wished to enter a defended area just to offload a couple of stuck eggs.

This led to an incident for my company last year when a UXB german 500lb'er was found in a field near Goole - straddling BTs main fibre backbone!


Seahorse - your quote there seems familiar, your not an ARRSEr as well are you?


Take care when using google earth views to find such sites, i often find very regular 'craters' in fields, but know exactly what they are, as part of my project mapping the HV distribution network. They are often the bases of low voltage power poles, which are circled by ploughing. Unless you are adept at reading aerial photography, and in particular spotting the telltale shadows of a single wooden pole, this are eay to miss identify. Often the steetview will help confirm if there is a power pole run.

 

[Jimthething]

Thanks for all the information guys. The line of marks I refer to can be found at
lat=53.7999024268, lon=-0.10131036001 on GE.

The reason I think these may be genuinely bomb track marks is that they are spaced at similar intervals as the craters on the Hull bomb map referred to in my earlier post and as I mentioned, the land around here is dark heavy boulder clay over a much lighter sand/gravel chalky bed. An explosion in this type of soil tends to throw up the lighter coloured lower layer which is very visible on top of the clay for a long time.
3 marks are very clear in the field adjacent to the farm buildings. Moving west there is one much fainter in the next field and then another possible disturbance at an equal distance west again on the edge of the rape-seed crop.
Regarding unexploded ordnance there was one blown up by the RAF BDU near a village called Ebberston on the A170 Scarborough to Pickering road the year before last too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8207500.stm
This was one of ours though after a Whitley bomber went down with the bomb still on board.

 

[wirelessmast]

Just put those co-ords into GE (after initially missing the - off the longitude and finding myself in the sea off withernsea!)

This is an area i know quite well. My initial assesment is a run of power poles. Ill report back a bit later after ive had a closer look, i will attempt to trace the run to an identifiable switch or substation if it is a power pole run, or otherwise try and identify an infrastructure item that it could be. If all these fail, then your idea might be worth a follow-up with a field walk.

 

[wirelessmast]

Im afraid it is power poles.

I can follow the run to a pole beside a hedge to the west of Mucky Lane, and to the east to the farm buildings. The4 pole at the farm has a very clear shadow, showing it to have a pair of cross members, so possibly this line carries two three-phase supplies. There are no obvious insulators on the shadow, so i suspect its a low voltage line 415v to 1 or 2kv. There will therefore be pole mounted transformers at the ends of the run. Its possible the western end pole connects to an underground cable.

That is my assesment. If it is convenient to you to do so, I would suggest you take a drive down Mucky Lane and do a visual check, i suspect you will find yourself parked under a few cables.


Update - If you go south to Humbleton road, and use streetview (from the point centrally between the crossroads and the farm, ie directly south of your original lat/long) you can see the power runs. There is a run going SW-NE across the field to the south of the farm, and another run going along Mucky Lane to the N. I suspect this run turns E and becomes the run I have identified.


What i did find interesting, is in the fields a little to the north - a pair of parallel crop-marks, these look like roads. I doubt that they are aincient causeways etc, as its unlikely a pair would have been laid parallel that close, and slightly diverging. I suspect they are crop-marks over a pair of shallow burried pipelines.

 

[wirelessmast]

The pole at the farm has a very clear shadow, showing it to have a pair of cross members, so possibly this line carries two three-phase supplies. .

Just occured to me - this pole has two crossmembers not because its carrying two set of cables, but because its at the farm! It will have circuit breakers on it to disconnect the farm if required. It probably has a transformer mounted on the pole below it, or in a small substation built on the farm grounds. A similar pole can be seen on the streetview from Humbleton road, its the pole that this run feeds off from

 

[Jimthething]

Aw, it's me that's been shot down in flames then! Lol.

That's some very impressive desktop research, Wireless. I will take a drive out there for a closer look this weekend though so watch this space!

 

[wirelessmast]

It comes from long nightshifts, bored and with GE access!

Yes, if you can get oput there, have a bit of a field walk, eyes on the ground always beat photo interpretation!

 

[night crawler]

if you find them dont go tapping them with an hammer though haha

Does my reputaion precede me.