HOO SAILING BARGE GRAVEYARD - JANUARY 2023

[night crawler]

All I remember about Harwich is that we went there to catch a ferry to the Hook of Holland

 

[Just-jo]

I've always had a soft spot for Thames sailing barges even tho always lived in the north east of England, born '58 here and in 1964 tv 'Hobbies Programme' ... had the v talented Oliver Smith build a model sailing barge, simplified and something a schoolboy could make, my dad made most of it whilst we were at Whitby circa '64, i still have that model and (somewhere) the plans we sent away for. Bow and stern block of the model made from the huge timbers used for extending Whitby harbour facilities; I'm thinking maybe greenheart?

 

[Sarah Waldock]

one has to assume, from the comments of the owner of the Ena that he was a Kentish Man to have such animus against the Men of Kent [the difference being in which side of a river they were born; I can't remember the details, but apparently it's very serious.]

 

[Sarah Waldock]

I confess I have an interest in Thames Barges, and in Norfolk wherries. My great great uncle was a wherryman on the Broads and worked for the Colman family. He was their chosen Wherryman to skipper their holiday wherry and there's a photograph of him and the family in Beccles museum.

 

[Hayman]

All I remember about Harwich is that we went there to catch a ferry to the Hook of Holland

Do not forget the lines in The Nightmare Song in Gilbert & Sullivan's 'Iolanthe':

For you dream you are crossing the Channel,
And tossing about in a steamer from Harwich –
Which is something between a large bathing machine
And a very small second class carriage –

My only ferry crossing from Harwich was to Esbjerg in Demark.

 

[Sarah Waldock]

Do not forget the lines in The Nightmare Song in Gilbert & Sullivan's 'Iolanthe':

For you dream you are crossing the Channel,
And tossing about in a steamer from Harwich –
Which is something between a large bathing machine
And a very small second class carriage –

My only ferry crossing from Harwich was to Esbjerg in Demark.

 

[Sarah Waldock]

did that publish on its own? I hate technology. Only wanted to say that the crossing between Harwich and Hoek den Holland on the Cat in a force 7 gusting 8 is distinctly unpleasant. I started doing stress calculations on the hull.

 

[Just-jo]

Norfolk .... you'll know who I mean by Sam Larner,

I confess I have an interest in Thames Barges, and in Norfolk wherries. My great great uncle was a wherryman on the Broads and worked for the Colman family. He was their chosen Wherryman to skipper their holiday wherry and there's a photograph of him and the family in Beccles museum.

famous for his singing of traditional songs, the sort of material covered by Topic records. Sometimes his material was shall we say a little fruity so i read.

 

[Sarah Waldock]

Norfolk .... you'll know who I mean by Sam Larner,

famous for his singing of traditional songs, the sort of material covered by Topic records. Sometimes his material was shall we say a little fruity so i read.

We always used to sing 'Stormy old Weather' but whatever verses old 'Lijah knew, would not have passed his sister's steely gaze... but I can imagine.

 

[Hayman]

did that publish on its own? I hate technology. Only wanted to say that the crossing between Harwich and Hoek den Holland on the Cat in a force 7 gusting 8 is distinctly unpleasant. I started doing stress calculations on the hull.

Did you have your slide rule and graph paper with you? I always travel with both !!!

 

[Sarah Waldock]

Did you have your slide rule and graph paper with you? I always travel with both !!!

I hate slide rules with a passion. I prefer longhand calculations [and proved at school that I could go faster than anyone else in the class with a calculator which we were allowed in physics, never mind a slide rule.] I used to travel with a table book of logs etc....

 

[Hayman]

Norfolk .... you'll know who I mean by Sam Larner,

famous for his singing of traditional songs, the sort of material covered by Topic records. Sometimes his material was shall we say a little fruity so i read.

Interesting to read, "His life was the basis for Ewan MacColl's song The Shoals of Herring [sung in the 1950s Radio Ballad 'Singing the Fishing', and his songs continue to be recorded by revival singers." Sam lived to a good age.

If you want some more Norfolk-style songs, listen to The Kipper Family - actually Chris Sugden and Dick Nudds who put on Norfolk accents. 'Bored of the Dance' is one of their well-known songs.

 

[Hayman]

I hate slide rules with a passion. I prefer longhand calculations [and proved at school that I could go faster than anyone else in the class with a calculator which we were allowed in physics, never mind a slide rule.] I used to travel with a table book of logs etc....

I well remember longhand calculations at school: if a ton of coal costs 92s. 10d, what is the cost of 12 tons 13 cwt 8 lbs of coal? Napierian logarithms, I trust.

 

[Sarah Waldock]

I well remember longhand calculations at school: if a ton of coal costs 92s. 10d, what is the cost of 12 tons 13 cwt 8 lbs of coal? Napierian logarithms, I trust.

the little red and cream book we were issued.... I was on the cusp of going metric, they asked for volunteers to change all the text books because they couldn't afford new ones.... mind, I can calculate in old money. I can calculate in angels, marks, and crowns too, and 17th century Polish zloty and grosze.... the side effect of writing historical novels, and discovering for one throwaway sentence that in 1800 £1 was equal to $5 and one French frank was worth £4/-/9d.
And the quick and brutal way to check your calculation is to make a rough guestimate of 12 2/3 tons before starting to check not to lose your way.

 

[Hayman]

the little red and cream book we were issued.... I was on the cusp of going metric, they asked for volunteers to change all the text books because they couldn't afford new ones.... mind, I can calculate in old money. I can calculate in angels, marks, and crowns too, and 17th century Polish zloty and grosze.... the side effect of writing historical novels, and discovering for one throwaway sentence that in 1800 £1 was equal to $5 and one French frank was worth £4/-/9d.
And the quick and brutal way to check your calculation is to make a rough guestimate of 12 2/3 tons before starting to check not to lose your way.

I think my grammar school log book was a bluey-grey colour, and well-thumbed. At least with the imperial system, patients did not get ten times the correct dose of medicine because the decimal point was in the wrong place. If you mean £1 was equal to five US dollars in 1800, around 1860 it shot up to 10 US dollars for a very short while. I recall at one time in the 1950s a gallon of petrol was 5 shillings, referred to as a dollar - a crown to historical novelists!

 

[Sarah Waldock]

I think my grammar school log book was a bluey-grey colour, and well-thumbed. At least with the imperial system, patients did not get ten times the correct dose of medicine because the decimal point was in the wrong place. If you mean £1 was equal to five US dollars in 1800, around 1860 it shot up to 10 US dollars for a very short while. I recall at one time in the 1950s a gallon of petrol was 5 shillings, referred to as a dollar - a crown to historical novelists!

Yes, it’s all about war. The Napoleonic wars at the same time as the war of 1812 [to 1815] brought the pound down to about 3.5 dollars IIRC without looking up my notes. The American civil war was very costly for the value of the dollar.

On the subject of the crown, it’s approximate equivalents the French crown, aka eco, the Florentine florin, the Venetian ducat etc [usually considered around 4/8d] didn’t fluctuate too much because it was more about weight of silver then. I’ve always found the mark interesting – a unit of currency in wide use but which had no coin to its value. 2/3 of a sovereign and therefore 2 angels.

And knowing that there was a coin called an Angel makes clear the folk song ‘Malt’s come down’ in the chorus:

‘Malt’s come down, malt’s come down,

From and old angel to a French crown.’

 

[Hayman]

Yes, it’s all about war. The Napoleonic wars at the same time as the war of 1812 [to 1815] brought the pound down to about 3.5 dollars IIRC without looking up my notes. The American civil war was very costly for the value of the dollar.

On the subject of the crown, it’s approximate equivalents the French crown, aka eco, the Florentine florin, the Venetian ducat etc [usually considered around 4/8d] didn’t fluctuate too much because it was more about weight of silver then. I’ve always found the mark interesting – a unit of currency in wide use but which had no coin to its value. 2/3 of a sovereign and therefore 2 angels.

And knowing that there was a coin called an Angel makes clear the folk song ‘Malt’s come down’ in the chorus:

‘Malt’s come down, malt’s come down,

From and old angel to a French crown.’

The only coin based on its content and stil in use that I have seen and handled is the Maria Theresa thaler. I saw it still being used in trade in Africa in the early 1970s. And with the original 1780 date.

 

[Sarah Waldock]

The only coin based on its content and stil in use that I have seen and handled is the Maria Theresa thaler. I saw it still being used in trade in Africa in the early 1970s. And with the original 1780 date.

Nice! Yes, they kept the date after she died because it was recognised as reliable and copied by Britain, France, and Uncle Tom Cobley and all in WW2. A fascinating coin, and another one worth five bob. the etymologist in me is aware that the name, thaler, is the root of the word dollar.

 

[Hayman]

Nice! Yes, they kept the date after she died because it was recognised as reliable and copied by Britain, France, and Uncle Tom Cobley and all in WW2. A fascinating coin, and another one worth five bob. the etymologist in me is aware that the name, thaler, is the root of the word dollar.

Sarah - I was not going to teach you how to suck eggs !! In Black Dragon, Yellow Dragon - the action story set in Lesotho that I wrote while out there (now on Amazon Kindle) - part of the plot was a Maria Theresa thaler being cut
into three pieces and worn as a talisman.

 

[Sarah Waldock]

The only coin based on its content and stil in use that I have seen and handled is the Maria Theresa thaler. I saw it still being used in trade in Africa in the early 1970s. And with the original 1780 date.

another one worth five bob... and considered such reliable currence it continued after her death, and was copied by

Sarah - I was not going to teach you how to suck eggs !! In Black Dragon, Yellow Dragon - the action story set in Lesotho that I wrote while out there (now on Amazon Kindle) - part of the plot was a Maria Theresa thaler being cut
into three pieces and worn as a talisman.

we writers pick up a lot of esoteric knowledge...