2 FW3/22 pillboxes with a difference

[jonney]

Here we have 2 of the remaining 4 pillboxes that once guarded RAF Acklington in Northumberland, the history of which can be found here http://www.neaviationresearch.org.uk/Airfields/Histories/Acklington.htm. All they are guarding these days are the prisons that were built on the site.

They are not your bog standard type 22's as you will see as they have LAA emplacements built on the top of them. They are on the DoB but don't have any corresponding reference numbers. I did try and get to the other 2 (1 is the same as these 2 and the other is a standard type 22) although the road that goes past them is now gated with private road signs all over them and I wasn't dressed for a 3 mile route march across farmers fields, and I didn't fancy going the other way and having to cross the East coast mainline to get to them but I will find a way next time I'm up that way because I've been told that the lozenge still has it's shutters in place. Anyway on with the photo's...

The first one is right next to the road near to the prison entrance

steps up to the LAA.

The farmer is using this one as a storeroom and has put a door on it

Internals... (the ricochet walls are not your usual Y shape but just straight)

up top on the LAA

Where the mountings should have been

The second one is a bit of a hike along the side of the prison (and the field was boggy as hell)

the steps have collapsed on this one

Internals... The shooters have been using this one as a hide

and up top

and again where the mountings should have been

If anyone has any idea what type of guns would have been mounted on these and what the mountings would have looked like I would be grateful if they could let me know

oh and then on the way back from trying to get to the other 2 I spotted this lozenge in a field (it is on the Dob as well)

But that's a job for next time as I didn't have time to get over to it and there was livestock in the field as well

Cheers for looking
Jon

 

[Munchh]

Thanks Jonney, most interesting and unusual boxes. Look forward to the lozenge. The LAA weapon was probably a Bren being relatively more abundant I would say. I remember seeing illustrations of the mounting online somewhere. It's a portable tripod arrangement and would probably have been the quickest to set up and easiest type of LAA to use.

Having said that, the purpose built ones had a vertical post to take the weapon mounting which dispensed with the tripod base and could accommodate a Lewis or Vickers as well as a Bren.

 

[night crawler]

What a great find there, wonderfull looking pillbox certanly more interesting that some of the ones I have come across lately.

 

[jonney]

Thanks Jonney, most interesting and unusual boxes. Look forward to the lozenge. The LAA weapon was probably a Bren being relatively more abundant I would say. I remember seeing illustrations of the mounting online somewhere. It's a portable tripod arrangement and would probably have been the quickest to set up and easiest type of LAA to use.

Having said that, the purpose built ones had a vertical post to take the weapon mounting which dispensed with the tripod base and could accommodate a Lewis or Vickers as well as a Bren.

I must admit I was expecting to find a single concrete post in the middle of it like you get in type 27's but was a bit confused by the 2 post holes and the large hole in the middle

 

[jindivik]

Raf Llanbedr

Here is one from Llanbedr which i think is a type 22 but needs confirming, also what is the concrete structure hanging from the roof purpose, most of this box has been partially buried for many years by sand,
any ideas?

 

[krela]

Its half a anti ricochet wall, it shoud go down to the floor like it does in most other 22/24s.

 

[jonney]

from what I can gather the other type 22 held the answers to my questions. The mount is still in place and it's a lewis gun mount. I now have a challenge to get there and photograph the last 2 and there is supposedly the remains of the vhf site to find as well

 

[Munchh]

from what I can gather the other type 22 held the answers to my questions. The mount is still in place and it's a lewis gun mount. I now have a challenge to get there and photograph the last 2 and there is supposedly the remains of the vhf site to find as well

Yeah, I had a good trawl round on the net and couldn't find any other type of air defence that might have fitted here apart from Lewis, Vickers or Bren. The square holes are a bit of a puzzle though Jonney, are they 'blind' holes or do they go through into the PB below? The only other thought I had if not LAA was a height finder perhaps? but don't know much about them.

 

[jonney]

Yeah, I had a good trawl round on the net and couldn't find any other type of air defence that might have fitted here apart from Lewis, Vickers or Bren. The square holes are a bit of a puzzle though Jonney, are they 'blind' holes or do they go through into the PB below? The only other thought I had if not LAA was a height finder perhaps? but don't know much about them.

Well the thing is on one of the pillboxes they were blind holes but on the other only one of them was blind but this looked as if the bottom had deteriorated away. have a look and see what you think

 

[festcu]

Used to play in these as a kid - my uncle worked at HMP Acklington. The pill boxes near the houses started my fascination with this sort of thing. Give me a shout if you go up again, it'd be nice to see the start of my "odd fascination" again

 

[jonney]

Used to play in these as a kid - my uncle worked at HMP Acklington. The pill boxes near the houses started my fascination with this sort of thing. Give me a shout if you go up again, it'd be nice to see the start of my "odd fascination" again

will do mate, probably be a couple of weeks time

 

[scottyg100]

Jonny what a find mate that place looks awesome

 

[jonney]

Jonny what a find mate that place looks awesome

Cheers matey they are a bit unusual and due to their location they are relatively unchav'd

 

[Munchh]

As an afterthought to my previous comments Jonney, I'm now wondering if the LAA position was occupied by a single Bofors or something similar. The square sockets and central area up top correspond uncannily to the Bofors featured in Bunker Bill's recent thread here;

[ame]http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/showthread.php?t=18096[/ame]

Pic 9 shows a single 40mm Bofors which occupies a similar footprint to the gun position on your 22's. There were smaller 20mm LAA weapons possibly being used by the British on land such as the Oerlikon 20mm canon although this was primarily a Naval weapon. There was also 20mm and 25mm Bofors. What do you think, are we on to something? It wouldn't be much of a stretch to put something a bit more powerful than a Bren up there for air defence is my thinking even if it was a bit more of an experiment than a planned move.

I do hate unanswered questions.

 

[jonney]

I must admit they did seem a lot bigger than your average type 22 and the post holes are still bothering me, but when you look at Bills photo's like you say they could have been anchor points for a bofors and this might explain the straight ricochet wall as well. Historical records show there was one 40mm bofors located in a field about 1/2 a mile from these 2. The only thing is this photo I found (not mine) of the other LAA emplacement showing a lewis gun mount but saying that if you click on to the next older photo there doesn't appear to be a ricochet wall and there is a metal fixing hanging from the ceiling http://www.flickr.com/photos/23119954@N07/2613696084/#/photos/23119954@N07/2613696084/lightbox/ These 2 are the closest to the sea and the other 2 are closer to what was RAF Eshot so it is possible that heavier defenses were required on this side and they were relying on the heavier defenses from the other airfield for the other

 

[krela]

As an afterthought to my previous comments Jonney, I'm now wondering if the LAA position was occupied by a single Bofors or something similar. The square sockets and central area up top correspond uncannily to the Bofors featured in Bunker Bill's recent thread here;

http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/showthread.php?t=18096

Pic 9 shows a single 40mm Bofors which occupies a similar footprint to the gun position on your 22's. There were smaller 20mm LAA weapons possibly being used by the British on land such as the Oerlikon 20mm canon although this was primarily a Naval weapon. There was also 20mm and 25mm Bofors. What do you think, are we on to something? It wouldn't be much of a stretch to put something a bit more powerful than a Bren up there for air defence is my thinking even if it was a bit more of an experiment than a planned move.

I do hate unanswered questions.

Errr no chance, they would certainly have been for a bren or lewis gun with AA tripod mounting, they're not even remotely big enough for a bofors!

 

[Munchh]

Errr no chance, they would certainly have been for a bren or lewis gun with AA tripod mounting, they're not even remotely big enough for a bofors!

Which was my initial thought too Krela. I felt the 40mm Bofors to be too large for a Type 22. After researching a bit further though there did seem to be other smaller 20/25mm LAA weapons available at the time which might just fit.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Bofors.htm

Any armed force capable of coming up with the Turnbull mounting cradle for a Vickers inside a PB might just also try to fit another originally oversized weapon on the roof. As I said, if you downscale the 40mm Bofors and fixed mounting to a 20mm canon on a smaller mounting you have a feasible alternative to the Bren or Lewis. I'm certainly not saying it did happen, merely that it could have.

 

[krela]

Which was my initial thought too Krela. I felt the 40mm Bofors to be too large for a Type 22. After researching a bit further though there did seem to be other smaller 20/25mm LAA weapons available at the time which might just fit.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Bofors.htm

Any armed force capable of coming up with the Turnbull mounting cradle for a Vickers inside a PB might just also try to fit another originally oversized weapon on the roof. As I said, if you downscale the 40mm Bofors and fixed mounting to a 20mm canon on a smaller mounting you have a feasible alternative to the Bren or Lewis. I'm certainly not saying it did happen, merely that it could have.

To my awareness no bofors 20/25mm guns were used for home defence in the UK. In fact I have never even seen a reference to them anywhere in a ww2 context, and indeed on reading that page it would appear that they are both post WW2 models (apart from the m/40 which I don't think the UK purchased).

 

[Scaramanger]

More pillboxes and something else...

Hi all

Not wanting to hijack the thread but I got a couple of shots of a pill box or two I'd like to share. I actually came here to photograph the unusual concrete slab type lookout I'm hoping someone can give me more info on as to what it actually was constructed for.

This pillbox is on the lelant side overlooking the estuary. On one side is hayle harbour and the other looking out to sea. It is now slap bang in the middle of a golf course.

The sand has eroded away from the pillbox making entry a slight challenge.

Some internals.. looks like some parties have been held in here..

outside again

Walking towards the sea there was another box visible which was well inside the golfcourse grounds so I didn't venture there. Then I went down on the beach and looked back which revealed yet another box...

By this point I was getting jiggered so didn't climb up and investigate this box further.

This is the "lookout" that drew me here..Looks out towards the sea.

Underneath was an access hatch which was well and truly locked..

A close up of the opening revealed a single light bulb which appears to have fallen back in to the lookout and an old school style massive cctv camera. You can just make the corner of this in the shot..

Any idea what this was originally for ?????

 

[jonney]

Is there a causeway across the estuary because it looks like a coastguard look out cabin to me. The pillbox looks like a type 24 to me